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A Moriie Wakizashi, But Which Moriie?

wakizashi translation

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#1 PNSSHOGUN

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 03:45 PM

I recently bought this wakizashi on ebay, with a Moriie signature and dated "Muromachi" era. Now I have done some looking myself into Moriie, there were quite a few it seems, ranging from the famous Hatakeda Moriie to standard Muromachi smiths.

 

Can anyone help me identify or give me a better clue as to which generation Moriie this could be? There was a note on the registration card from a previous owner that thought it may be 2nd or 3rd generation Moriie, but at the price I paid I sincerely doubt that as those smiths have very high Fujishiro, Toko Taikan and Hawley ratings.

 

The sword itself is in very good condition, and seems to have been polished quite a few times in its life due to the thin hamon and two small ware.

 

Please find attached images of the sword, with the mei seen on the middle.

 

Thank you for your help.

 

 

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John


#2 Alex A

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 05:14 PM

Hi John, difficult from the pictures, could do with better photos and description of the blade details. Looks to be a Suguha hamon, theres a few Moriie towards the end of the Muromachi period who mainly use that style of hamon.

 

I think your right about Ebay too, I would expect it to be one of the lesser known Moriie, maybe even Shinto (I think there is Shinto), you need to compare the work.


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#3 PNSSHOGUN

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 05:14 AM

Thanks Alex, I'll get some better shots when I can, these were the sellers photos.

 

Here are the specs

Nagasa:46.3cm(18.2in) (all length 66cm(25.98in))

Sori:1cm(0.39in)

Motohaba:25mm(0.98in)

Motokasane:5mm(0.19in)

Sakishige:about 30mm(1.18in)

Mei:守家造之
 

Hada is O-Mokume, hamon suguha and very thin, there is a slight bend in the blade as well, so it has been used on something tough in its lifetime it seems. Two meguki-ana. The blade has certainly been polished a few times, as there are a few openings but the steel is still bright and the last polish was a good one. Overall for the price I paid this is in excellent condition.

Hope this helped, thank you.

 


John


#4 Jussi Ekholm

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 11:53 AM

I would be very cautious with a sword with 守家 Moriie signature. At first I would think this as Muromachi period wakizashi with gimei 守家 signature.


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Jussi Ekholm


#5 PNSSHOGUN

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 08:33 AM

Yes, I agree, however the mei isn't a match for any of the famous or highly rated Moriie generations that I have found so far. I don't mind either way as the sword itself is quite nice. Hopefully someone can recognize the correct generation or period.

 

I have some high res shots now, please find them attached:
IMG_9862.jpg IMG_9870.jpg IMG_9866.jpg received_10209699435535189.jpeg


John


#6 Alex A

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 12:26 AM

Hi John, maybe someone knows better than me, but I cant cant find enough info on the lesser known Moriie to come up with anything of use.

 

Always got to be wary when buying from Ebay, as Jussi points out with the mei.

 

A lot of swords on Ebay are the end result of someone knowing better (they know the sword is gimei/ wont pass shinsa/has not passed shinsa etc)

 

Period, id say late Muromachi- Early Shinto.(best I can come up with)

 

If you find anything out, be good to see.


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#7 PNSSHOGUN

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 04:38 AM

Thanks Alex, looks like you came to the same deadend that I did for the later generations, there really isn't much information around.

 

Well at the end of the day it's a nice sword in good polish for a nominal price, regardless of mei.

 

 

 

Though if anyone can confirm it's 1st generation Moriie.....drinks are on me ;) 


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John


#8 lubo

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:34 PM

Hello, please anybody has any new information to the problem ?

 

I have similar wakizashi 守家造之 from ebay .

 

Blade length:51.9cm/ 20.45 inches
Sori : 1.6cm / 0.62 inches
Nagasa: 77.0cm/ 30.31inches
Weight: 834.0g

 

Patina looks old, the shape seems to be kamakura like ,

I assume it is a decent copy of the original

but it is definitely not an original form 13th century.

 

Is it gimei or is it some swordsmith trying to imitate the style

with slight different mei ?

 

It seems both swords are from the same swordsmith, good quality, but not collectible
because they have suspicious mei or gimei.

 

 

 

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Lubo

#9 raymondsinger

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:36 PM

My impression is that this is Muromachi.


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#10 lubo

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:41 PM

thank you for the information.

I'm adding more pictures for reference.

 

 

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Lubo

#11 ROKUJURO

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 10:16 PM

Lubo,

please sign all posts with your first name and an initial, so we may address you politely. 

Your blade is quite different, I think, and not necessarily from the same smith.

By the way, you mixed up the dimensions:

 Blade length:51.9cm/ 20.45 inches

 

Nagasa: 77.0cm/ 30.31inches

That should probably be the other way round (blade length is NAGASA).


Regards,

Jean C.

#12 Jean

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 11:04 PM

Yakidashi seems to indicate Shinto.
Jean L.
Soshin Gimei

#13 lubo

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 08:27 AM

Thank you gentlemen your opinion is valued.

 

I'm beginner and I'm learning all the stuff.

As far as I know, Hatakeda Moriie is very big name and I was at least correct that this is not the original.

All Moriie wakizashis I have seen in books were mumei tachi o-suriage which is not this case.

 

Firstly it is not mumei and secondly yakidashi is present as Daimyo suggested so it was made intentionally as wakizashi from the beginning.

 

So I'll  assume it is gimei from some mysterious swordsmith, probably shinto period.

 

 

B.R.  Lubo K


Lubo

#14 Ken-Hawaii

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 09:44 AM

Almost definitely Muromachi, Lubo. In older blades, the hamon pattern tends to continue into the kissaki. And the ana on the wakizashi look drilled, not chiseled.


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#15 PNSSHOGUN

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 10:22 AM

My conclusions have been that it's either Gimei or from one of the many generations of Moriie in Muromachi/Shinto.

 

Here's a 5th Generation for example: http://new.uniquejap...chi/?com=Swords


John


#16 lubo

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 08:00 PM

Hello.

I spent more time on the "Mori-ie  kore (o) tsukuru" Mei and I have found example of the 3rd nakago.

You can refer to this link:
 

http://www.militaria...4544-wakizashi/

 

I assume all wakizashis with this Mei are Gimei.

 

Thank you all for help.

 

B.R.  Lubo

 

Attached Thumbnails

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Lubo

#17 lubo

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 08:42 PM

Hello, I founded another example.

守●造. The middle character looks like a cross between 定 and 宗 (and 家 :) )

 

Is the second letter altered on purpose  ? 

Could the original mei  be MORISADA (守定), Tenbun (天文, 1532-1555), Bungo – “Taira Morisada” (平守定), “Morisada saku” (守定作), Taira-Takada school ?

 

B.R. Lubo

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Lubo





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