Indentification/information Request

[Philip]

Brand new member...hoping for a bit of information.  Just picked up a sword at an estate auction here in Canada.  Beautiful piece, but I know nothing about it. There were no family members able to provide information on how it was acquired.  The lady passed away this year and was 102.  Guessing it might have been her husband bringing it back after the war, but that is simply a guess. 

 

Posting a number of pictures in no particular order and hopefully this will help for identification/information.  I just purchased this today so have not had a chance to research care...and definitely not yet brave enough to think yet about removing the grip to see the tang.  One of the pegs is buried under the wrapping.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Philip]

Pictures Part 2

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Phillip, You have a Japanese Army Officer Type 3 Shingunto. You can read about them here: http://ohmura-study.net/952.html.

 

Don't be afraid to take the handle off, it's made to come off easily, simply push the bamboo peg out from the others side. The handle will slip right off. If it's on tight I like to grab both sides of the hand guard and wiggle side to side, which scoots the handle back a bit and loosens it.

 

Once you do, most likely there will be a swordsmith name on one side and a date on the other, all in Japanese of course. Take pics, blade pointed up, and post here for translation. This are usually dated from 1943 - 1945, but we'll see when you take it apart.

[Philip]

Thanks Bruce.  That's great info.  I quickly watched a couple of video's and took the handle off using a small mallet and a chopstick of all things to push the pegs through...pictures are not the best with the light at the moment but here goes...

 

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[Philip]

a few more...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

The date is January, 1944. Hopefully someone will translate the smith name. I'll see what I can do, but I'm new at the names.

[Bruce Pennington]

兼房 (Kanefusa) is my guess, but I wouldn't put much weight on that!

[Mark]

i think Kanemune

[Peter Bleed]

I see it as KANEMUNE

Peter

[Philip]

Also just noticed a very small mark also on the one side that didn't come up in the pictures I posted...I didn't notice it the first time around.

 

 

 

[Peter Bleed]

Nagoya stamp, ain't it?

P

[Philip]

Thanks so much Bruce, Mark and Peter.  Great info and lots for me to go on for more research on it.  Any initial care recommendations?  Assuming just a very light oil on the blade with a cloth.  How about the metal fittings and the scabbard...a light oil also or not needed?   Appreciate all the info. 

[Grey Doffin]

Care and etiquette:

http://www.nbthk-ab.org/Etiquette.htm

 

No oil on the fittings.

Grey

[Bruce Pennington]

I see it as KANEMUNE

Peter

兼宗 (Kanemune) You're probably right on that!

 

Peter, that one had me stumped but I think you're right: 名 Kanemune was a Seki smith, but Nagoya was the aresenal overseeing Seki production. Just never saw a Nagoya stamp on the nakago. Seeing new stuff (new to me!) all the time!

[BenVK]

Could be a Gendaito but it's difficult to be sure, someone's had a go at polishing it but made a mess of it.

[ggil]

This blade doesn't really scream gendaito. The mei is haphazardly cut and what's left of the polish isn't showing signs of significant (if any) differential hardening. Still nice in its merits which are many, but gendaito not likely, I'm thinking.

[Brian]

As has been mentioned before, no-one has seen a Gendaito in fitted those mounts, with that colour scabbard.
99% this is a Showato.

[reeder]

Brian, I've seen 2. Here's one http://www.samuraisword.com/nihonto_c/SOLD/Kanehide/

 

The other was a star stamped Kanenori I posted here for some help a few years ago when I was helping a museum. I know I sent pics to Chris and will post if I can find them.

 

In re: to this sword, kanemune generally made low grade swords. The stamp is the "na" stamp iirc. I've owned about a half dozen by Kanemune over the years and never saw one that would have been considered gendai.

[BenVK]

You've confused me guys.. (not that difficult) 

 

Do you mean Gendai not often seen in so called Type 3 mounts or not often in this specific olive colour saya?

 

I thought I could see hada in one of the photos but it's probably patches of corrosion that's been polished over.

[Brian]

VERY not often seen in these mounts with olive saya. Hardly ever.
But on the other hand, in the lacquered dark saya version with lacquered tsuka..almost always.

[Dave R]

 A decent sword in fairly good condition, I rather like "Type 3's" myself, a no nonsense fighting blade.

[Daniel]

Hi

 

This is a Showato for sure. About the mountings. Gendaito usually comes in the higher grade Type 3 Koshirae with wooden Saya, laquered Ito and double button release. Most do also have the dust protection. However I used to own one with steel Saya. It was a star stamped Kanetoshi. The Koshirae were really low grade for a Gendai. The Ito were poorly done but it had some laquer if I remember correctly. I also had a Gendaito with wooden Saya but with unlaquered Ito BUT I have never seen a Gendaito steel Saya laquered ito or not WITHOUT the double button release. With other words if in steel Saya, without the dust protection, unlaquered Ito and lacking the double button release it's still safe to assume Showato. Mountings aside. If no Nie. no Hada and no Hataraki...

 

Hope this helps

Best Regards

Daniel

[ggil]

Ben, I'm sure your question is already answered but just in case... collectors call non-traditionally made ww2 blades "showato". These are the ones that the Japanese government considers solely weapons and insists they be destroyed upon location. However, some non-traditionally made ww2 blades are not destroyed but get legally registered as art/gendaito because the folks doing the registration are unsure or whatever (I have a katana like this). Some collectors and other artists here do appreciate so called "showato". They are still quite valuable, as history, engineering feats, art, etc...to many. Apparently in the war, the Japanese felt similarly about so called "showato," even seeing their own soul in what later became hated and destroyed. I think it is impossible to know exactly what kunimune (or his team) were thinking/feeling when they made it. My romantic side tends to think these must have been more than just simple products/weapons at the time. there is a lot this sword can teach you, if you buy into that sort of thing. best of luck!

[IJASWORDS]

The type 3 is indeed a hefty formidable sword, with two mekugi one of them often a metal thread screw. The premium example normally house a blade made by a reputable smith. It has a double latch, lacquered ITO, and ray skin tsuka with a painted wood saya.

The lower grade models have the single latch, plain ITO, painted heavy steel saya, dust cover or German silver SEPPA, and celluloid on the TSUKA. The blades are made by a less notable smith.

These often get mistakenly called MARINE LANDING FORCE swords.

Any way, these swords like all WW2 Japanese swords (regardless of the sword smith), should be cared for and preserved. Other than oiling, any abrasive cleaning is NO NO! Neil.

[BANGBANGSAN]

Neil

That's nice collcetion of type 3!

Trystan

[Philip]

appreciate all the information.  This has definitely led me down a rabbit hole in terms of reading which is great.  I gave the blade a light wipe with isoproyl alcohol using a coffee filter and then wipe down with a cotton cloth and a very light amount of 3 in 1.  The rest of the fittings and the saya just a wipe down with a clean cotton cloth.  I have it reassembled without any issue.  One of the meguki's was previously broken..so it's only about half as long as it should be.  Any recommendations on replacement or leave as is?

 

Also...curious on thoughts around fabrication.  I came across an article that describes the 9 manufacturing methods of that time period as per Richard Fuller (listed below).  Where would this blade fit into that?  I am assuming somewhere between 4 and 7.  Is there any general rules around when a smiths signature would be applied or not in regards to the manufacturing processes listed below?

 

 

1. Tamahagane gendaito. Fully hand forged and differentially hardened in the traditional manner using water as a quenching agent. Possesses an active hamon and hada.

 

2. Mill-steel gendaito. Fully hand forged from mill steel or (more often) 19th century railway tracks made from Swedish steel. Differentially hardened in the traditional manner using water as a quenching agent. Possesses an active hamon and hada.

 

3. Koa-isshin Mantetsu-to. Made from Manchurian steel by a special process. Partly forged, partly engineered, and differentially hardened in the traditional manner using water as a quenching agent. Possesses an active hamon and hada.

 

4. Han-tanren abura yaki-ire-to. Partially forged from mill stock, some folding, differentially hardened using oil. Does have a hamon although it is nowhere near as active as a water-quenched sword, but lacks hada.

 

5. Sunobe abura yaki-ire-to. Drawn down, forged to shape, not folded. Differential hardened using oil, may have a fairly inactive hamon, but no hada.

 

6. Mantetsu-to. Rolled from Manchurian railway tracks. Differential hardening using oil, may have a fairly inactive hamon, but no hada.

 

7. Murata-to. Rolled or drawn, oil hardened but not differentially hardened. Yakiba but no visible hamon and no hada.

 

8. Tai-sabi-ko. Stainless steel, oil-hardened, no grain, no hamon, possible yakiba. Made for the Imperial Japanese Navy to resist salt corrosion.

 

9. Machine made. Serial number in the blade. No forging; stamped out and quenched in oil without differential hardening, assuming that they are hardened at all. No hada and no hamon. Some may in fact be plated, and in the worst cases the hamon may be acid etched onto the steel. The classic example is the NCO swords. On a par with Chinese fakes, and the most commonly faked sword.

 

 

(list was taken from the following article: http://ryujinswords.com/shostamp.htm)

[Philip]

I took a stab at understanding the identification and wanted to check to make sure I have this correct.  I added some text to the pictures for the name and the date kanji. 

 

Couple of things I am not sure about.  For the year...if I am starting with the showa period - 1926 - and the year specified in the kanji is 19...why is it then 18+1926 = 1944?  Why 1 less?  Easy enough to remember if it's a rule....just curious on the why.

 

 

The second piece that I am really not sure about is the name.  The second kanji is nice and clear - mune - but the first I was less confident on - Kane.   I took a look at the following: http://nihontoclub.com/smiths/KAN1619 and at http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/oshigata/kanemun2.jpg and I had a hard time matching my first kanji to the examples.  The two examples seem to match up well to each other...but I had a tough time getting my head around the match to the signature on my sword. 

 

Here are the pictures with the text broken out per kanji (hopefully the text comes through enough to read it).  Hoping someone can verify if I am correct.  Really appreciate the help.  Enjoying the research on this. 

 

 

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[SteveM]

Hello Philip,

 

You nailed it. 

 

兼 (kane) in calligraphy (especially on swords) is often written very differently from how the printed version looks, or how it displays using typical computer fonts.

In fact, it is often abbreviated to the point where it hardly resembles the printed version at all. You do get used to it.

The kane on this sword is about as abbreviated as it comes, but it is definitely 兼

 

 

Showa 1 = 1926 

Showa 19 = 1944

[Bruce Pennington]

Phillip,

 

I've never heard how the dating system originated, wish I knew, but you do have to subtract 1 from the numbers after the emperor date. Ha, before the Showa era, previous emperor eras often used zodiacal kanji that added to the emperor era! You really need a decoder-ring to translate those!

 

Well, even that isn't hard and fast. The Mantetsu factory used zodiacal dating on the Koa Issin blades, in the Showa era; while I've seen some old blades from earlier eras that had numberical dating too. So, you get a mix sometimes.

 

Link with Zodiacal date chart: https://www.japaneseswordindex.com/kanji/zodiac.htm

[Brian]

Easy enough to understand if you consider that if Showa is 1926, then Showa 1 is the first year of Showa = 1926, not 1926+1
So Showa 19 is the 19'th year of Showa, 1926 being the first. So not 1926 PLUS the number. Always minus the first year. Gettit?