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Samurai Mon Question


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#1 shibeni

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 12:14 PM

Hello,is it possible to find out to which samurai family belongs this mons in armours?
Thank you very much,
Bojan S.

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Bojan S.

#2 Ian

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 12:32 PM

This may help

https://doyouknowjapan.com/symbols/


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#3 uwe

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 10:12 AM

Hi Bojan,
I'll try to figure out on Sunday. When I'm back home from vacations.....
Uwe Sacklowski

#4 shibeni

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 10:30 AM

Thank you very much for help Uwe.
Regards,
Bojan S.
Bojan S.

#5 IanB

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 11:11 AM

Bojan,  The short answer to your question is no. Firstly two of the mon, the ones on the left and right in particular were used by just about everybody and his brother. Secondly, there was no regulation or recording of mon, other than restrictions on their use, until quite late. The mon used by some of the commanders at Seki ga Hara are unknown despite the fact that they were reasonably important people at the time. There was a practice of granting your mon to a subordinate who had been victorious with the result that the 3 - 5 - 3 kirimon, as on the helmet on the right, became so widely used that it didn't really identify anyone.

Ian Bottomley


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#6 shibeni

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 11:49 AM

Thank you Ian for this information.
Best regards,
Bojan S.
Bojan S.

#7 uwe

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 02:07 PM

Hi Bojan,

Ian is basically right. Almost no chance for pinning down the families (clans) if there is no further information about the particular armor (-parts) bearing the mon. Not to disappoint you completely, here are some possibilities....

 

The kabuto:

 

IMG_3751.JPG

IMG_3752.JPG

IMG_3753.JPG

 

 

The dou:

 

IMG_3750.JPG

 

 

 

The fugikaeshi (second kabuto):

 

IMG_3754.JPG

 

 

Guess, now you can imagin why Ian not named any specific family  ;-)

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Uwe Sacklowski

#8 DaveT

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 03:50 PM

Sometimes you can pair a mon to a clan. 

For instance the Hosokawa made use of the etchu style which is very distinctive, same applies to the Date with the oshu/sendai style and the Ii with their red Hikone armours. Stepping aside from that its near impossible to marry a mon with a clan.
As the others have said, they were used too widely by so many.


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#9 Bugyotsuji

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 05:00 AM

Yup, sadly I have to agree with the above.

I have a beautiful wakizashi koshirae covered in the sideways Mitsu Hikiryo Mon on your Do above. "Miura?" Hopefully wagging my tail, I have shown it to several Japanese sword experts but they all seemed to shy away from naming any one family.
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#10 shibeni

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 11:10 AM

Thank you all for this, very good lesson.
Regards,
Bojan S.
Bojan S.




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