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1853 Enfield Markings


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#1 pcfarrar

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Posted 18 September 2016 - 03:20 PM

Does anyone know if the markings on this Enfield 1853 carbine are Chinese or Japanese?

Thanks,

Peter

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#2 Peter Bleed

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Posted 18 September 2016 - 04:48 PM

"Number 5613  Hiroshima-ken"

This looks like a Meiji ers gun registration number

Peter


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#3 pcfarrar

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Posted 18 September 2016 - 06:20 PM

Thanks for the help Peter. 

 

Its an Artillery carbine with 3 groove rifling, the lock is dated 1866.


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#4 Bugyotsuji

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Posted 18 September 2016 - 07:45 PM

No. 5,063, (2,063?) probably registered in the first and biggest post-Edo round-up and registration in Meiji 5.
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#5 Peter Bleed

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Posted 18 September 2016 - 10:13 PM

Holy crap! I've struck out from Friday on this one.

I am spending the day packing up my sword library in preparation for a move to be closer to our granddaughters. I opened the initial message as a break and took a quick hip shot that was wide of the mark. - TWICE. OMG. Then I thought I would help by seeing what Francis Allen and the Banzai guys had to say about Enfield carbines, But I think I packed that (terrific) volume a couple of days ago. Peter get a copy of it, I am sure that your will find it useful (even if I ain't)

 Steve, can you change my name on the earlier messages?

Peter

PS. And BTW, do you have any idea what a sword library weighs?


Peter Bleed

#6 pcfarrar

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 10:28 AM

Thanks Peter, I will try and get a copy of that book.

 

I will also post some more photos when I have the gun next weekend.


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#7 Peter Bleed

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 05:47 PM

Peter,

This page describes the Banzai volume on early imported arms in Japan. I admire it deeply, altho I have the feeling that as collectors get organized - worldwide - it may become a milestone long passed.

http://www.castle-th...seimportedarms/

And I cannot find my copy! It is somewhere in those boxes of books.

Peter


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#8 pcfarrar

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 06:07 PM

I found an old book that stated that the clan in Hiroshima were trained in British military tactics in the late 1860s. I presume this gun could possibly be a result of that training? Or is it more likely to have been a private purchase by a samurai?
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#9 pcfarrar

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 03:29 PM

I discovered the gun has another inscription on the brass butt plate. Looks like a rack number (5857) from being stored in an armoury perhaps?

 

There is also another line of kanji on the stock but it is very feint and hard to see but definitely ends with a yama.

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#10 Shugyosha

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 04:27 PM

Hi Peter,

 

I'm sorry but I can't see your "yama" ( 山) I can see a serial number five thousand, six hundred and thirteen then the "ban" kanji 番 and then three further kanji, the first two of which I think are Hiroshima (廣島) but I can't get the third one. 

 

Best,

John


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#11 Shugyosha

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 04:29 PM

Sorry Peter and Peter, I should have read to the top of the thread.

 

Kind regards,

John


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#12 pcfarrar

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 04:41 PM

The other inscription isn't quite visible in the photo. It goes from top to bottom at the base of the stock. It's too far gone to translate I think.
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#13 Bugyotsuji

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 10:41 PM

Try us!
  • Viper6924 likes this
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#14 pcfarrar

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 01:08 AM

Try us!


You can see what looks like a Yama quite clearly but the rest above is too heavily worn out to see.

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#15 pcfarrar

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 09:24 AM

I purchased the Francis Allan book "Japanese Imported Arms of the Early Meiji Period". Was well worth the price as it is an excellent reference.

In the book there is an Enfield Cavalry carbine with the same Hiroshima registration marks. I contacted the author and he was quite surprised to see another and suspected both carbines may have come from the same Han unit.
Peter Farrar

#16 Bugyotsuji

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 10:35 AM

Interesting follow-up story! Many thanks.
Piers D

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