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Fake Type 95 Nco Swords

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#1 Shamsy

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 11:55 AM

Hi all,

while I'm sure our members know how to pick a fake NCO, I wanted to share these.

http://mountcastlesa...products_id=277

http://mountcastlesa...hvekob07rapkkq2

The really disappointing part is that I informed the site owner about the first sword and provided a comprehensive list of indicators the sword is not genuine. I offered to send photos or provide opinions from experienced collector's. After that I heard nothing. Today I checked, just in case the sword was pulled from sale, and lo and behold there is a 'rare copper handle' now listed, clearly of the same manufacturer. Truly disappointing.


Steve
Collecting Type 95 NCO swords

#2 Kai-Gunto

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 01:10 PM

The last idiot hasnt been born yet!
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#3 Hamfish

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 02:07 PM

like many dealers, there main concern is profit,  regardless of the piece being a reproduction.

 

I have been asked this many times at shows, from dealers and buyers. once told the facts they simply try and sell it on at the same price they paid, to avoid a loss of money instead of learning from there mistakes.

 

collectors often have a higher knowledge base then dealers, and a higher respect for items and there history. As we have a grater passion for and preservation in mind rather then profits as a dealer does.


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#4 charlie1

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 02:33 AM

I searched into the rest of the Japanese items on the site. What a bunch of junk. The sad part is someone  probably will buy one of them too.  

 

Charlie


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#5 CarlosFandango

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 08:03 PM

HI All,

 

Hi I'm a newly signed up member of the site

 

I recently took the plunge and made my first Japanese sword purchase. I opted for the lower end of the market and went for a Type 95 (this is all new to me and only found this out through google) NCO Shin Gunto. One thing I also saw while researching is the nightmare of the number of fakes out there.

I avoided buying into German WW2 helmets because of the fakes out there and now I've entered into another minefield.

 

Anyway, if ok, can I post some pictures to get your expert opinion on my purchase?

 

Kind regards,

 

CF



#6 Stephen

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 08:07 PM

Sorry you didnt see this post first.


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#7 CarlosFandango

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 08:21 PM

Sorry you didnt see this post first.

Well... am hoping mine is genuine - also just realised I should've actually started my own thread - apologies


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#8 Stephen

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 08:29 PM

Great lets see what you got, in your own post ;) lol


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#9 Shamsy

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 12:09 PM

Here is another example that's not too bad, but the bohi, stamps (these are most obvious parts) and other details are off. Even so, enough to fool a novice. I'll continue to post where I find different examples.

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Steve
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#10 Stephen

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 01:54 PM

well it would have fooled me, how about you other gunto guys? Steves last post real or copy?


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#11 Stegel

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 04:12 PM

This is why the education side of collecting is so important!!

To a novice who buys on impulse........then asks in the forums..........you'll get BURNT

This is a blatant fake, which you should keep well away from.


Stegel


#12 Brian

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 06:44 PM

I would have been fooled too.


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#13 Jean

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 06:54 PM

No, as stated by Steve, the bohi is off.
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#14 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 07:50 PM

well it would have fooled me, how about you other gunto guys? Steves last post real or copy?


This looks good from a distance, but up close the details reveal the fake. The biggest giveaway are the stamps. They are getting better with the Kokura cannonballs, but this one - the lines are to thin, the balls too big. Then the horror is the "Ko" stamp! WAY too big, wrong place and the square imprint around it.

The seppa is a clear fake, and like everyone else said, the bo-hi starts too far down the blade and the tip is round (like a Nagoya).

#15 mauser99

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 07:57 PM

well it would have fooled me, how about you other gunto guys? Steves last post real or copy?

As I said in the other NCO topic.  The overall swords are getting better.  The best place to look is at the serial Numbers.

One, they aren't in the correct range. Second the Font isn't even close.

 

 

Here is a decent fake Stu W. posted over on WAF.

This would fool most entry level guys.  The serial #'s  are the best place to focus IMHO

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#16 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 09:01 PM

As I said in the other NCO topic.  The overall swords are getting better.  The best place to look is at the serial Numbers.
One, they aren't in the correct range. Second the Font isn't even close.
 
 
Here is a decent fake Stu W. posted over on WAF.
This would fool most entry level guys.  The serial #'s  are the best place to focus IMHO


Yes, those are strangely too perfect and not a recognized font.

#17 Stephen

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 10:04 PM

Wayne i would have called bad on it, think F&G early book had balls that big, remember two diff stacked ball stamp, or not, memory, lol, i jest.


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#18 Shamsy

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 10:10 PM

The detail that troubles me is the saya suspension ring being in the right place. Usually the copies are considerably lower, making it very obvious. Slowly improving.

I'm reposting the pictures of the fake pattern 5 that Stegel provided in the wooden handled topic just to have them all together.

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Steve
Collecting Type 95 NCO swords

#19 mauser99

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 11:06 PM

another example where they got the product near correct but numbered it wrong.  And with the wrong type stamps.

Serial range could be wrong as well but, I cant see them.


Wayne W.

#20 Greg F

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 03:07 AM

Hi fella's,
Lets hope the guys that make the fakes arent reading all this and learning what to improve. Though i think its great that the militaria collectors can help each other look out for the fakes! All the best.

Greg
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#21 paul griff

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 09:55 AM

Hello,
Carlos,I remember your sword ( if it's the same one you first put on the site ) and it's 100%...If you look at the sword by Shamsy in post no9 look at the seppa and how poorly it fits and how new it looks ! Mauser 99 in post 15 look to the scabbard throat and you should see the brass sleeve visible.Also with the MountCastle example the paint still looked fresh in the overly large fake serial number on the throat.....Shame really because the one that is on the site with a painted hilt but marked sold is a real one,and nice too !
Regards,
Paul..

#22 Shamsy

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 12:09 PM

Hi all,

A new sword was pointed out to me recently which is very well made and in fact at first glance addresses a lot of the issues with obvious fakes. Cheers to Dan for bringing it to my attention. Because it's really quite a nice repro, thought I'd better share it here as for reference.

Obvious two issues are the scabbard pattern and additional screw. See how many more you can pick!

Gee they're starting to get good though...

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Collecting Type 95 NCO swords

#23 PNSSHOGUN

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 12:55 PM

The one thing that always sets off alarms on these is the tsuka almost looks blurred or sandblasted, the real NCO's are usually crisp and bold and well defined. It's hard to really pin down, just doesn't sit right with the eye. Otherwise that is dangerously good to newcomers or unwary collectors looking for that ebay goldmine.


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#24 J Reid

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 04:38 PM

Close up and of kissaki and bohi termination is a must. It's a huge tell tale. Fakes never get it right.
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#25 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 06:14 PM

The one thing that always sets off alarms on these is the tsuka almost looks blurred or sandblasted, the real NCO's are usually crisp and bold and well defined. It's hard to really pin down, just doesn't sit right with the eye. Otherwise that is dangerously good to newcomers or unwary collectors looking for that ebay goldmine.


I agree and have never been able to put it into words like you just did. The real tsukas have crisp detail, and the fakes always seem not-crisp.

Also, they definitely like those brass tsukas, don't they!

I have NO idea what that belt hanger is supposed to be.

#26 Hamfish

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 10:29 PM

and it has a brass tsuka.


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#27 Shamsy

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 10:32 PM

All correct! There are a bunch more issues with the sword, so if anyone wants to test their detective skills this is a good opportunity.

I just wanted to chime in here... I probably say this way too much BUT to flog a dead horse, the NCOs have a ton of small variations between subcontractors and between batches themselves, so just something to keep in mind.
Steve
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#28 zook

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 01:58 PM

This sword I shared with Steve (this thread) is a very good knowledge test -  the goofy belt hanger (Bruce references) made me discount the sword immediately, but on closer look (my opinion) the stamps are a bit better than the other, cheaper fakes out there on the market.   I think it's always worth spending the extra time to study these "high end fakes/copies" because they are getting better.    

 

Referencing Carlo's post from last year,  I also used to collect some German (for MANY years) and was quite confident in my ability to spot fakes,  but I admit the quality is now off the charts (especially helmets) and it forced me totally out of that hobby.  I am extremely thankful for the help/knowledge shared in this forum.    

 

Dan  


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#29 Shamsy

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 12:41 AM

Hi Brian,

Could this thread please get a Fake tag? I use it to post different and new varieties of fake 95s. They are unfortunately getting pretty good now. Something changed in the last 6 months.

Cheers
Steve
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#30 Tommac

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 03:52 AM

Man just crazy all the fakes and how great this sight is about telling how to spot them .many thanks for posting to help us out 

Tom







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