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Need Help With Transaltion And Information On This Tanegashima


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#1 thanet

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 07:55 AM

Hi everyone

 

I'm new to the forum. I'm so glad that i found this forum.  I just made a purchase on this antique Tanegashima and would love to know if anyone know the meaning of the signature on the bottom of the gun

attach here is the photo. Also, would be great if you guy can may be tell more information about it history and which family it likely to come from. I just start learning about Japan history and in love with it culture.

Thank you in advance :)

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Thanet Natisri

#2 Brian

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 08:13 AM

Hi....? (Please sign all posts with at least a first name)

That isn't a signature, more like just a symbol. The signature (if there is one, and often there is) will be underneath the action. You can take it apart fairly easily. Look in the FAQ section above for instructions and pics. A fairly typical example. Hopefully Ian or Piers will be able to tell you more shortly. Welcome, and enjoy your immersion into the culture.

 

Brian


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#3 thanet

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 07:55 PM

Hi....? (Please sign all posts with at least a first name)

That isn't a signature, more like just a symbol. The signature (if there is one, and often there is) will be underneath the action. You can take it apart fairly easily. Look in the FAQ section above for instructions and pics. A fairly typical example. Hopefully Ian or Piers will be able to tell you more shortly. Welcome, and enjoy your immersion into the culture.

 

Brian

Hi Thank you Brian,

sorry about didnt sign a post with my name, i will surely do next time, Thank for the direction I will try to removed the barrel this afternoon. will upload more photo.

thank you

 

Thanet


Thanet Natisri

#4 Bugyotsuji

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 01:12 PM

Hi Thanet,

 

Congratulations on your new acquisition. You must be very excited.

 

It would be foolish of me to say anything before you post pictures of the signature, if there is one, but your gun has most of the signs of a small bore long gun from Settsu/Sesshu/Sakai (Osaka).  What are generally called merchants' guns. They are around 1 or 2 Monme in caliber, and they tend to be flashily decorated like yours. The tear shaped trigger, the shape of the rear sight, the thick brass breech band, the inlay on the barrel and the brass decorations on the stock all point that way. Your gun will be needing a new pan cover, and possibly a trigger guard?

 

These are all (un)helpful guesses. Now watch me get egg on my face.


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#5 Bugyotsuji

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 01:26 PM

PS The character on the bottom of the butt is probably an old version of Ho/Takara meaning treasured object.  

(Ho-to means a specially treasured sword, for example.)


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#6 thanet

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 07:22 AM

Hi Bugyotsuji

Thank you for your information. It is very excited indeed. It is my first antique Japanese pieces.
I tired to take off the barrel but fail. It seem like it stuck ( I removed the 4 pin along the wood stock, then try to push out the barrel but nothing move)
Is there other pin else where I need to remove? (I follow all the instructions on how to removed in thr FAQ question on this forum but still no luck) or just the 4 pin and push out the barrel harder?

Thank you
Thanet


Hi Thanet,

Congratulations on your new acquisition. You must be very excited.

It would be foolish of me to say anything before you post pictures of the signature, if there is one, but your gun has most of the signs of a small bore long gun from Settsu/Sesshu/Sakai (Osaka). What are generally called merchants' guns. They are around 1 or 2 Monme in caliber, and they tend to be flashily decorated like yours. The tear shaped trigger, the shape of the rear sight, the thick brass breech band, the inlay on the barrel and the brass decorations on the stock all point that way. Your gun will be needing a new pan cover, and possibly a trigger guard?

These are all (un)helpful guesses. Now watch me get egg on my face.


Thanet Natisri

#7 thanet

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 07:33 AM

Thank Bugyotsuji
Is the stamp also often found on other similar tanegashima as well?

Thank you
Thanet

PS The character on the bottom of the butt is probably an old version of Ho/Takara meaning treasured object.  
(Ho-to means a specially treasured sword, for example.)


Thanet Natisri

#8 Bugyotsuji

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 10:04 AM

Thanet, no, there is not usually such a Kanji on the butt bottom. It gives an insight into the original owner's mind, doesn't it! It is probably hand engraved, rather than a 'stamp' per se. (?)

 

***** Sometimes these guns are difficult to open for the first time. The barrels tend to rust, and the stock wood tends to shrink, so you have to find some 'gentle' way to break the seal.


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#9 thanet

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 09:12 PM

Thank you Bugyotsuji
You were mention about this one called " merchant gun". Can you tell me more about it ? Is it mean only merchant using this type of gun but not samurai?

Yes the symbol is look like hand engraved ! Thank you😍

Thank you
Thanet

Thanet, no, there is not usually such a Kanji on the butt bottom. It gives an insight into the original owner's mind, doesn't it! It is probably hand engraved, rather than a 'stamp' per se. (?)

***** Sometimes these guns are difficult to open for the first time. The barrels tend to rust, and the stock wood tends to shrink, so you have to find some 'gentle' way to break the seal.


Thanet Natisri

#10 Brian

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 08:24 AM

You were mention about this one called " merchant gun". Can you tell me more about it ? Is it mean only merchant using this type of gun but not samurai?
 

 

As romantic as samurai useage sounds..the majority of guns will have been used as utilitarian tools and by hunters. Samurai guns tended to have less decoration and "bling"


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#11 Bugyotsuji

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 01:57 PM

Thanks Brian. In his book 日本の古銃 Old Japanese Guns of Japan (only in Japanese), Mr Taira Sawada (who himself is Osaka born and bred) suggests that ashigaru (light foot soldiers) used guns of a minumum bore of 3.5 Monme. Army guns of this bore/caliber and above were plain and undecorated. He shows photographs from his collection not only of these, but also some highly decorated guns like yours of smaller bore. The difference is clear to him. Eric once provided an ukiyo-e print illustrating them being sold in an Osaka street shopfront. The writing in the print refers to them as 鳥銃 'bird' guns. The phrase 大阪商人 Osaka Shonin, which can also be read as Osaka Akindo, illustrates the popular concept of the traditional wheeler-dealer nature of the city, both buying and selling. Many of these decorated guns of smaller bore have found their way to the West over the years.


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