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My New Nihonto With Pics

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#1 Freakdaddy70

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 09:57 AM

Well I just purchased a new Katana from a friend, and have been doing a lot of research over the last few weeks. I've got a few ideas as to the swordsmith, and the date, but I wanted to run it by a group of knowledgeable individuals. So I will post some pics, and give you some stats, and see what everyone thinks. If nothing else, it is an impressive blade, and will hopefully give a few minutes of entertainment for you all. So here goes, please forgive any and all errors in descriptions, the blade is 24" to the Tsuba, the hada is very tight, and is mokume/masame showing on one side, the other side is mostly masame. The sori is torri zori (I think), it has a O-kissaki, the hamon is gunome-midare (again I think), the mune is iori-mune. Well that should do it for now, more info will follow when asked. So enjoy!!

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Adam


#2 Freakdaddy70

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 10:04 AM

More pics!! Hope this doesn't break any rules for too many pics!

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Adam


#3 Freakdaddy70

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 10:11 AM

Ok should be the last set. 

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Adam


#4 Heringsdorf

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 10:39 AM

To me this blade looks like a Chinese made sword, not Japanese.
The jihada looks strange to me, like made of powdered carbon steel.
Did your friend who sold you the blade give you any more information?
Maximilian

#5 Freakdaddy70

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 10:41 AM

Ok, so that was the last of them, and I hope everyone enjoys. I am new with the ownership of nihontos, and learning as I go. I currently own 2, with the other one being a signed and dated wak with a katana tsuka (pics when asked). I want to make sure I didn't break any rules with all the pics. I'm not looking to sell, these both came from a good friend, and if I where going to sell, I would sell back to him. I really just want to learn, and am curious to know if I'm on the right track. This katana that I posted I believe is from the Mino line of smiths, I think it is older, and was cut down. There is no mei, and the hamon looks to go into the nakago. I could be way off, but I really think this blade is from a higher end smith. The blade is crazy sharp, and I can't see the edge, unless I use a magnifying glass. It is a sharper than all my other knives, modern katanas, and wak, and I personally sharpen my knives to shaving sharp.

 

Thanks for the time,

Adam


Adam


#6 dig1982

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 10:45 AM

My opinion is that you have bought a fake. Strange hamon, boshi and nakago.
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#7 Brian

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 10:46 AM

Hi,

Need to sign all posts with a name please.

Has someone used ferric chloride on it? Seems the hamon and hada has been etched, which is a shame. The hamon in the boshi also needs to be checked to see if it runs off.

Shinshinto would be my call. But I think the kissaki was reshaped possibly.


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#8 Freakdaddy70

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 10:48 AM

To me this blade looks like a Chinese made sword, not Japanese.
The jihada looks strange to me, like made of powdered carbon steel.
Did your friend who sold you the blade give you any more information?

I know that my friend bought this in Japan, at a known, and recommended dealer. I have seen many chinese blades in person, and own 3 myself, and this blade in know way looks anything like a chinese knock-off. 


Adam


#9 doomsdaymachine

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 10:48 AM

To me this blade looks like a Chinese made sword, not Japanese.
The jihada looks strange to me, like made of powdered carbon steel.
Did your friend who sold you the blade give you any more information?

 

i disagree. looks like a nihonto that hasn't been cared for, was sandpapered with high grit, then acid etched to make it pop.


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#10 Brian

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 10:49 AM

I thought fake at first, but I do think it is real, but heavily etched and altered. I think the nakago was reshaped and someone non-professional tried a restoration. Seen this kind of work everywhere amateur polishers try and restore a blade.
The fittings/saya are genuine and the hada isn't too far off considering the acid treatment.


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#11 doomsdaymachine

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 10:50 AM

Hi,

Need to sign all posts with a name please.

Has someone used ferric chloride on it? Seems the hamon and hada has been etched, which is a shame. The hamon in the boshi also needs to be checked to see if it runs off.

Shinshinto would be my call. But I think the kissaki was reshaped possibly.

in the first set, the boshi looks intact to me, but mild.


reggie k

#12 Heringsdorf

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 10:55 AM

I thought fake at first, but I do think it is real, but heavily etched and altered. I think the nakago was reshaped and someone non-professional tried a restoration. Seen this kind of work everywhere amateur polishers try and restore a blade.
The fittings/saya are genuine and the hada isn't too far off considering the acid treatment.


Right Brian,
My first impression was that this is a Chinese fake.
But I think you are right that this is a authentic nihonto, just in bad condition.
The acid etched Harmon led me to think Chinese.
Also the nakago looks strange.
This blade is really in need of a professional polish and restoration.
Maximilian

#13 Freakdaddy70

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 10:59 AM

Hi,

Need to sign all posts with a name please.

Has someone used ferric chloride on it? Seems the hamon and hada has been etched, which is a shame. The hamon in the boshi also needs to be checked to see if it runs off.

Shinshinto would be my call. But I think the kissaki was reshaped possibly.

Sorry for the signature, I haven't, and my friend hasn't used ferric chloride. What in your opinion would etching look like in person (would there be a different feeling by touch)? The hamon doesn't run off, but is close. The kissaki does look like it was reshaped.

 

Adam


Adam


#14 doomsdaymachine

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 11:04 AM

the acid etching looks glossy, dark and clear. look at the first five in sequence in the last set of pictures. it goes from a more natural, old polish look to a very glassy look. also look at the shiny/hazy areas around the shinogi. looks like sandpapering to me which is used in "hybrid" polishing.


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#15 dig1982

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 11:06 AM

Sorry but if it is not a fake but a real nohonto, i don't know if it can be restored, it lost all its geometry...
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#16 Freakdaddy70

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 11:06 AM

i disagree. looks like a nihonto that hasn't been cared for, was sandpapered with high grit, then acid etched to make it pop.

I can't say for sure, that it wasn't sandpapered in the past, or etched. But as far as the pop, it took me a long time to get the light source just right to get the hamon to stand out. Under normal light, the hamon is just a line going down the edge. I really was trying to get a good image of the nie, and hada. 

 

Adam


Adam


#17 doomsdaymachine

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 11:07 AM

Sorry but if it is not a fake but a real nohonto, i don't know if it can be restored, it lost all its geometry...

just needs a polish. a good polisher should be able to recall a more original shape.


reggie k

#18 paulb

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 11:11 AM

Could I please respectfully ask members not to jump to the calls of "fake" so rapidly when they see something that doesn't conform fully to what they believe a sword should look like.

It must cause considerable concern to someone who has bought from a known source in good faith to be confronted with such opinions made with little observation and thought,especially when shortly afterwards the accuser changes their mind.

I dont think this is a fake by any stretch of the imagination. I am not sure about the acid etch view either although the colour and overall look does suggest the polish is strange. Overall shape is interesting and the blade looks quite healthy. It would be interesting to see it in a better polish.

Regards

Paul


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#19 Freakdaddy70

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 11:15 AM

the acid etching looks glossy, dark and clear. look at the first five in sequence in the last set of pictures. it goes from a more natural, old polish look to a very glassy look. also look at the shiny/hazy areas around the shinogi. looks like sandpapering to me which is used in "hybrid" polishing.

The difference in pictures is more of an effect of the light. In normal lighting the blade is the same shade all the way around. The dark areas are me not getting the light right. 

 

Adam


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#20 doomsdaymachine

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 11:18 AM

The difference in pictures is more of an effect of the light. In normal lighting the blade is the same shade all the way around. The dark areas are me not getting the light right. 

 

Adam

i could be wrong, then. i'm terrible at taking pictures, so judging them is equally above my pay grade.


reggie k

#21 Brian

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 11:19 AM

Acid/ferric chloride etching makes the hada stand out very "hard" and the hamon becomes whitish and prominent. I really do think it has been etched, having seen many swords in hand done that way. A good polish doesn't make the hamon appear homogeneous and white, and doesn't open the hada as much.

I don't think there is any doubt this had an amateur polish, even in Japan it is possible by some of the eBay sellers there.
However, it is real and I think would look much better in polish. You say it is 24" to the tsuba, so how long to the machi? Wakizashi or katana?

It is going to be very hard to date it or assign to a school in the current state. I don't get the feeling of it being older than a Shinshinto, but could easily be wrong. All in all, it is a real sword worth preserving and investigating further.


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#22 dig1982

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 11:21 AM

Reggie it seems that the sword is yours...
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#23 dig1982

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 11:26 AM

Paul if the boshi really runs off the kissaki, noone polisher can do a miracle to restore it.
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#24 doomsdaymachine

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 11:32 AM

Reggie it seems that the sword is yours...

...what?


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#25 dig1982

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 11:42 AM

Sorry, it seems because you defend it...
Diego T.

#26 Freakdaddy70

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 11:47 AM

Could I please respectfully ask members not to jump to the calls of "fake" so rapidly when they see something that doesn't conform fully to what they believe a sword should look like.

It must cause considerable concern to someone who has bought from a known source in good faith to be confronted with such opinions made with little observation and thought,especially when shortly afterwards the accuser changes their mind.

I dont think this is a fake by any stretch of the imagination. I am not sure about the acid etch view either although the colour and overall look does suggest the polish is strange. Overall shape is interesting and the blade looks quite healthy. It would be interesting to see it in a better polish.

Regards

Paul

Thanks for the concern Paul, but I understand the doubts. I see a lot of blades online, and have the same doubts. I didn't realize how hard it was to photograph nihontos, until I tried. This is the third set of photos I took of the blade, and still wasn't able to capture the real life effect. The kissaki alone took me forever, and I still never caught it correctly! The light in that small area just completely washes all the details out, and by the time i figured out how to put the light way out and down, the tip would look bent, but isn't. In some of the pic's the tip looks brown, burnt, bent, and made me take a second look at my blade, cause I thought it was! The Nakago looks

 

Could I please respectfully ask members not to jump to the calls of "fake" so rapidly when they see something that doesn't conform fully to what they believe a sword should look like.

It must cause considerable concern to someone who has bought from a known source in good faith to be confronted with such opinions made with little observation and thought,especially when shortly afterwards the accuser changes their mind.

I dont think this is a fake by any stretch of the imagination. I am not sure about the acid etch view either although the colour and overall look does suggest the polish is strange. Overall shape is interesting and the blade looks quite healthy. It would be interesting to see it in a better polish.

Regards

Paul

Thanks for the concern Paul, but I can understand the doubt of others. I've seen many pics online, and have doubted them as well. I didn't realize how hard it was to photograph a nihonto, until I tried. The kissaki alone took me 100 pics or so to get the light right, some pics made the tip bent, burnt, brown, or just made the whole thing look like a flash bulb. To try and get the hada, hamon, nie, and everything else to show, took a lot of repositioning and patience. I would take a pic, look, and go, "what the hell is that!" then look at the blade, see a little piece of lint, or hair, or oil drop, or nothing! Very tough indeed, if i tried the pic with the light wrong the hamon disappeared, the hada disappeared, and the kissaki flashed! That's why there is more close ups, they where easier, but caught a lot of flash, which could explain the hamon looking funny, or the hada looking unreal. Anyway, I know it's real, and my main questions is, Is this blade worth the money and effort to get polished? Those things are expensive, and I wouldn't want to waste on something that wasn't worth it. I'm happy with the blade as is, and would only do it if it paid off. My main focus on it is more about where it came from, and the history behind it, that's worth more to me than a shiny sharp knife.

 

Adam


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#27 dig1982

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 11:59 AM

I'm sorry if i jump to call it fake, but at first look it seems chinese. At second look probably real nihonto but in this condition Adam is very difficult to say something about history, date or other things. From the pics i don't know if the blade worth the money of professional polishing.
If you have the possibility to take it to a togishi for a judgement, is the best to do.
Diego T.

#28 Freakdaddy70

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 12:05 PM

Acid/ferric chloride etching makes the hada stand out very "hard" and the hamon becomes whitish and prominent. I really do think it has been etched, having seen many swords in hand done that way. A good polish doesn't make the hamon appear homogeneous and white, and doesn't open the hada as much.

I don't think there is any doubt this had an amateur polish, even in Japan it is possible by some of the eBay sellers there.
However, it is real and I think would look much better in polish. You say it is 24" to the tsuba, so how long to the machi? Wakizashi or katana?

It is going to be very hard to date it or assign to a school in the current state. I don't get the feeling of it being older than a Shinshinto, but could easily be wrong. All in all, it is a real sword worth preserving and investigating further.

Under normal light the hada, and hamon are very subtle, and don't pop. I used a bright white LED light, which is probably giving the impression of POW! The reason I used this light source, was because it showed the details, and I could see the structure, I thought it would better tell the story of who it was. I should have said machi, but said tsuba, it's 24"to machi, with another 8"to the end.

 

Adam


Adam


#29 Freakdaddy70

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 12:10 PM

I'm sorry if i jump to call it fake, but at first look it seems chinese. At second look probably real nihonto but in this condition Adam is very difficult to say something about history, date or other things. From the pics i don't know if the blade worth the money of professional polishing.
If you have the possibility to take it to a togishi for a judgement, is the best to do.

Diego, at this point, I wouldn't even know where to look for a togishi, and I'm more looking for general knowledge, at this point. If I go to Japan anytime soon, I'll look up a polisher, and see.

 

Adam


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#30 Freakdaddy70

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 12:16 PM

Paul if the boshi really runs off the kissaki, noone polisher can do a miracle to restore it.

It doesn't run of the end, but it is thin, which could be from a reshape. 

 

Adam


Adam






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