Any help on these wakizashi fittings?

[Robert C. Walker]

I just received a wakizashi that I am trying to find out more information on. Here are photos of its tsuba as well as its fuchi kashira. The fuchi kashira shows layering that I am told suggests Guri-Bori but I am new to the details of nihonto. I am interested in anything that anybody might have to say about it.

[Bungo]

Guri-Bori fittings usually command a " high " market price ( hate to talk $ ) but...........the association of " valuable " f/k makes one not to " dismiss " the tsuba so easily ( assuming the tsuba has not been switched ).

 

Stand alone, some collectors may poo poo the tsuba to Yokohama dock special.

I think the details on the figures are quite fine, even though the color/patina of the plate is not ideal........

 

Pete? Curran ? ideas ?

Forget Trickie Turner, he's an old iron guy.........

 

milt the roninj

[Robert C. Walker]

Thanks for the help. Here are some better photos of the fuchi kashira. I guess price is interesting as an indicator of relative value but I am not interested in selling the piece anyway. Yokohama dock special sounds ominous.

[Brian]

Wow..I am intrigued.

For a fittings novice, can someone explain the layering effect inside the carvings? Does this indicate patination, or a layering of the various alloys used in construction?

 

Brian

 

Edit to add: I see the question has been answered by our own Gabriel Lebec when commenting on this same sword here: http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=114590

 

I also found this: http://www.silversmithing.com/1mokume.htm

Mokume-Gane was innovated by Denbei Shoami (1651-1728), who lived and worked most of his life in Akita Prefecture of Northwest Japan. He was a superb craftsman who was given permission to use the name Shoami from Shoam School, which started in Kyoto in the late 1500's. He was also supported by Satake who was then Kaimyo (feudal lord) in the Akita area. Mokume-Gane was Shoami's invention, but it was only one facet of his work. It should be realized that he was also a historically important craftsman who produced excellent examples in steel, of sword furniture, and sword fittings with carving and inlay. At first, Shoami named his technique Guri Bori because the pattern on his first nonferrous Mokume-Gane tsuba was like Guri, which is one of the Tsuishu techniques in lacquer work (Urshi), originating in ancient China. Tsuishu is one of the techniques where patterns are achieved by carving into thick layers of different colored lacquer; when line patterns are created, it is referred to as Guri. From sword making influences Denbei Shoami found that nonferrous laminates could be joined together to create patterns similar to lacquer work. He later named this pattern Mokume-Gane. His oldest work in Mokume-Gane was used in the Kizuka (sword hilt) using gold, silver, Shakudo, and copper. This technique was also called Itame-Gane or Yosefuki. There is no doubt that Denbei Shoami was influenced by the swordsmith and adapted those principles of forge welding to begin Mokume-Gane.

 

First time I have come across this technique. Very impressive and interesting.

[Gabriel L]

Hi Brian, Robert,

 

Hah, I was about to quote myself for you Brian but it seems you've already linked the myArmoury thread.

 

I am not much of a fittings person myself; my entire knowledge of guri-bori is based on an article by Hoa Benson in the Vol. 1 No. 4 (1980) issue of Bushido magazine. Anyone who has that series should check it out, there are some gorgeous examples. Also, I think there is a thread on SFI with comments by Guido Schiller, should do a search but I have to run!

Cheers,

-GLL

[Nobody]

FYI, here are some examples of guri-bori (屈輪彫 or 倶利彫) tsuba.

http://www.mokumeganeya.com/mokume.html

[Robert C. Walker]

Nice examples. The one tsuba would be a perfect match if it was for a wakizashi!

[Curran]

Brian, Milt, Robert, etc.-

 

I remember the Benson article in Bushido article. Good photos. Yes, done in layers and then removed. The real stuff does command higher prices. Someone had a nice set at the Tampa show a year or two ago.

 

The tsuba looks as Milt said- lower end dock work. Doesn't make sense. Someone mis-match a set of fittings? A sword coming out of a Christies NYC auction a few years ago had a fuchi / kashira like this, but none of the other fittings matched. Had a Goto kogai shoved in a slot too small for it. Kogai anf f/k were worth a fair bit more than the sword.

 

Brian's little blurb contained more information than I know off the top of my head. Like Trickie, I prefer the old iron though occassionally seduced by kinko now and then.

 

Robert- congrats.

[docliss]

We are all agreed, it seems, that the fuchi-gashira on Robert’s wakizashi are guri-bori and the tsuba Nagoya-mono. I love the gold, rope-like rims on the former, and this is an unusual feature on such work. Robert has not illustrated the tenjo of the fuchi, and I therefore assume that the set is unsigned.

 

The mismatching of the fittings on this sword does not surprise me at all. Tsuba are constantly being swapped around by collectors but, fortunately, fuchi-gashira and menuki are much more difficult to remove, and are thus more frequently original. One can be certain that whoever was responsible for this swap got a better tsuba in exchange!

 

I have attached photographs of a guri-bori fuchi-gashira from my own collection. The Takahashi family were the predominant workers in this technique, and this set bears the signature and kao of Takahashi Okitsugu (H 07479.0). This artist was the son of Takahashi Masatsugu, the founder of the school, and worked in Edo ca 1775-1800.

 

Ref. Haynes’ Index of Japanese Sword Fittings and Associated Artists, p. 1461.

Kinko Meikan, p. 60a.

 

Regards, John L.

[Bungo]

" I love the gold, rope-like rims on the former "

 

I think that's removable......a kind of custom made thingie to fit the " better quality " fuchi.

 

http://www.esnips.com/web/fuchikashira?docsPage=7#files

one of the peacock fuchi ( the top one ) has a removable thing with the black rim.

 

milt the ronin

[docliss]

You may well be right about it being removable - I note that there is one, also, on the kashira. Perhaps Robert can clarify if this is so?

 

John L.

[Bungo]

" I love the gold, rope-like rims on the former "

 

I think that's removable......a kind of custom made thingie to fit the " better quality " fuchi.

 

http://www.esnips.com/web/fuchikashira?docsPage=7#files

one of the peacock fuchi ( the top one ) has a removable thing with the black rim.

 

 

 

here's close up pics............

 

milt the ronin

[doug e lewis]

Hi Bob Walker,

 

The fittings look great -- especially the Fushia/koshira.

question: i could not make out the menuki under the wrap.

What are they, if you know? and, and can you give us a few more pics of them [without taking out of the wrap, of course].

 

Do they match the fushis/koshira?

 

i'd show your fittings to my tosugu sensei for his opinion [mine are worthless], but John is a modified Luddite and refuses to even turn on the computer, or even use it when his wife uses it. and i am not allowed over until he finishes his current restoration job.

 

what does the wak look like?

 

doug e

[Robert C. Walker]

Yes, the gold coloured rims are removable.

[Nobody]

question: i could not make out the menuki under the wrap.

What are they, if you know? and, and can you give us a few more pics of them [without taking out of the wrap, of course].

That may be two Hidari-Mitsudomoe (左三つ巴), I think.

[doug e lewis]

Beautiful!!

 

thank you for the look.

 

i die a small death that i can not hold it.

 

doug e

[Bungo]

found these on the tsuka of one of my katana.........

 

 

milt the ronin

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

Looks like the Hashimoto family mon (real name of Hizen Tadayoshi lineage).

[Robert C. Walker]

Can you please advise me on my options to get these fittings assessed? It would be lovely to send them to a Shinsa.

[Brian]

8 Years later??

[Geraint]

Patience Brian, patience!

 

However it does allow us to revisit the tsuba in the light of the Kyo kinko attribution of this one.  http://www.aoijapan.com/tsuba-mumeikyo-kinko-5

 

The sword is a nice package and would be interesting to see the whole thing restored.

 

All the best.

[Stephen]

       

[Stephen]

dont you mean this tsuba?

http://www.aoijapan.com/tsuba-mumeikyo-shoami-2

[ROKUJURO]

Geraint,

I would not be surprised at all if Robert's TSUBA was a low grade SANMAI construction. Some details let me think so. I don't think it shares similarities with the KYO KINKO. 

Of course I would love to own all the rest!

  

........However it does allow us to revisit the tsuba in the light of the Kyo kinko attribution of this one.  http://www.aoijapan.com/tsuba-mumeikyo-kinko-5

 

......

[MauroP]

Hi everybody,

the tsuba is undoubtedly a low level mass-produced item, but has not a sanmai construction. This kind of tsuba has previously been discussed on NMB (see: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/14025-next-best-thing-to-having-nbthk-papers/?hl=%2Bkyo-kinko+%2Bmaurop&do=findComment&comment=147254).

By the way, the subject of decoration is quite uncommon, and should represent the six immortal poets (rokkasen - 六歌仙).

Bye, Mauro

[kusunokimasahige]

Love the fuchu-Kashira combo.

Do not know the exact style but it does remind me of some Ainu carving patterns as well as ancient Chinese carving patterns.
That is just the style of the pattern. I am not sure whether it has a name but it must have..

 

[Robert C. Walker]

Yes, Brian, time flies. Sadly not much time for Nihonto. Very busy dojo.

[christianmalterre]

and John (sorrowly!) did quitt the "scene".

he very certainly did "lead" you in his usual and best way in his writing!

 

me

[Brian]

Yes, it is a tribute to the late Dr John L, who was always so helpful and knowledgeable.
Can we let this topic rest now too?