What is this?

[Splidge]

Hello all, any thoughts to what this might be, and what its use was ?

[Brian]

Frank,

 

Size? Is it a few mm, or a few cm or huge?

Will help guess what it was used for.

 

Brian

[Splidge]

Brian

Sorry never thought to put the size of it would help, the pictures make it look larger than it is, not sure what its made of probable brass? although it is very light and it is 1.7cm in circumference. The gentleman I bought this off gave a story about it but I'll wait untill there have been a few guesses as to what it is or nobody is able to say what they think it is before I quote his story.

 

regards

 

Frank

[remzy]

I am still no expert... but if this is 1.7cm diametre.. this might very well be a tsuba inlay of shishi?

 

Rémy

[AndreasU]

From the black stuff that is remaining on the backside, I would think that this was a part of an "inlay" in a saya or the tip of a kashira.

 

The theme is a shishi which can often be seen on menukis but from the size I think it is more a part of on inlay.

[Splidge]

Hi all just to further this query this is what the person that I bought it from wrote about it,

 

IT WAS BOUGHT IN A SHOP IN SHIZUOKA CITY IN 1988 WE WERE TOLD IT CAME FROM THE SITE AROUND SEKIGAHARA ? I THINK IT WAS A BATTLE ? AND IS REPORTED TO BE SILVER IT CERTAINLY HASNT CORRODED AND ITS A CAP FROM THE PEG THAT SECURES THE BLADE IN A TANTO OR SHORT SWORD ITS STILL HAS PETRIFIED WOOD ON THE REVERSE.

 

any other thoughts or is it just possible?

 

Regards

 

Frank.

[Brian]

By CAP FROM THE PEG THAT SECURES THE BLADE IN A TANTO OR SHORT SWORD I assume he means a single menuki. Menuki were originally positioned over the mekugi before they became less utilitarian.

Entirely possible. Whether it is part of a saya inlay or menuki or other decorative motif, they all fall into the same category I expect. Quite possible it is a menuki though.

 

Brian

[Pete Klein]

I would say this is a single menuki most probably from a set of two for an Aikuchi type tanto koshirae. The material on the ura (back) is a mixture of pitch/tar and wood scraps which was used to affix it to the tsuka. This is an example of the style:

 

http://www.aoi-art.com/fittings/7000-7049/07048.html

 

Inyokan menuki have projections which fit into each other and act as a form of mekugi. They didn't work very well and were dropped early on but the menuki form stayed on as an embellishment evolving into what we see today. The Ko Goto Shirobei line used this style for the first several generations but then moved away from them. I've attached a scan from Sasano's 'Tosogu no Kigan' of a type of inyokan set. They did not always have this rectangular form more often being rounded as seen in the Goto pieces.

 

As for Sekigahara, the site of several major battles, I would have to take that with just a bit of seller's salt.

[Brian]

Pete,

 

Your pic brings up an interesting question that i have been wondering about.

I have a waki that has multiple mekugi ana, and one of them is deliberately square. I have also seen posts occasionally with theories that square mekugi ana can sometimes be linked to early swords.

Looking at the posts of the ones you attached, it would make sense for the ana to be square or rectangular instead of round.

Does anyone have any theories or examples of mekugi ana that are not round? I have also heard of them being keyhole shaped, and not caused by 2 ana crossing over into each other.

 

Brian

[Pete Klein]

Hey Brian -- also, please note the placement/position of the mekugi ana on the nakago. The ones which are placed further away from the machi and toward the nakagojiri are usually from earlier mounts where the inyokan type may have been used. If the ana is toward the machi, then it is more likely from the later type which did not use the inyokan style 'mekugi'. The problem with the inyokan was they came loose easily which is an obvious disadvantage in combat. Bamboo can be soaked in water and placed to tightly fit which is an advantage. If you have a copy of 'Tanto' you will see the early blades with several mekugiana starting high and moving toward the machi as they progressed in koshirae styles, unlike longer swords where this was due to machiokuri.

[Brian]

Pete,

 

Here is the nakago in question. I believe it is slightly suriage, and the nakago has a slight bend too. :?

It definitely looks punched that way. The yasurime are not visible, and look to have worn off over the years.

 

Brian

[Pete Klein]

Brian -- what type of blade is this? Tanto, wak?

[Brian]

Pete,

 

It's a wakizashi, nagasa around 43cm, shinogi zukuri. Needs a polish badly, looks like there may be some hitatsura.

 

I'll post some pics when the light is right outside, I get horrible pics indoors.

 

Brian

[Pete Klein]

Any idea of the age? If it's not Koto, then it's a moot issue.

[Brian]

That is the big question :D

Another ferric chloride polish that hides everything I need to see, and makes hamon appear everywhere. It is nasty stuff...even worse than mild acid I believe. Seeing it too damn often, and ppl should be strung up for using it.

 

I do believe it looks like a koto though. The rust and corrosion on the nakago would bear that out, but I would have to post pics to get more of an idea.

The multiple ana would also lean me towards koto. I don't get the impression of o-suriage though.

Might be one of those things that I have to forever wonder about until I can afford to have it polished and papered. The ana could just be some odd variation on a whim, or it could be an indicator of what we have been discussing.

Didn't see much info on the square or keyhole ana anywhere, but your info certainly does bring us some interesting possibilities on some of these blades.

 

Brian

[Pete Klein]

I just spoke with a polisher (Becerra) on this and he offered that you can see this when an ana was being placed and there would be a copper or other metal shim in the square which was then rounded for fit. It isn't all that uncommon apparently. Also when they would open the hole it would be filed square to start and then rounded appropriately which is why you sometimes see a round ana go flat in one area. They are also seen on nagamaki so from there you can see that this could appear on naoshi. Always something new to figure out.

The use of square ana to place an inyukan menuki would be rare and would most likely be on a tanto although the menuki I posted are from a koshigatana of shorter wakizashi length.

Zeesh!

 

PS: I would say the 'keyhole' is just two overlapping round ana placed to accomodate two different koshirae.

[Martin]

Hi all,

 

look at this link: http://www.aoi-art.com/fittings/7350-7399/07398.html

 

cheers,