Soshin Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Hi Everyone, Just wanted to start a discussion topic on the art appreciation of Higo tsuba towards the goal of a somewhat better understand. I used the title of the fine JSSUS translation publication by Markus Sesko of the Me no Me magazine article because I find the term "Dandy" defined in Merriam-Webster's Dictionary as "something that is very good or impressive : a very good example of something" very appropriate. I want this topic to be a showcase good examples and interesting discussion of Higo tsuba that Itō Mitsuru and Itō Sanpei would enjoy. To start off this topic I will share three photos of new tsuba to my collection that I was able to acquire at the Tampa show last month. A show in which I was lucky enough to see many fine Higo tsuba and other tosogu at a few different tables including the table I was sharing with Curran. The first photo was taken under bright natural sunlight and nicely displays the deep purplish-black color which is refereed to as (yokan よかん) and is characteristic of tsuba from the Hayashi and Kamiyoshi Schools of Higo Province. One photo shows the tsuba along a complete Higo style koshirae. The positive openwork (ji-sukashi 地透) design is refereed to as (kasumi-sakura 霞桜透) "cherry blossoms in mist". Not sure of the association between cherry blossoms and mist or fog. Interesting the outer rim and therefore the overall shape of the tsuba is that of a chrysanthemum flower. Some more examples of Higo tsuba with this design can be found here: http://blog.goo.ne.jp/tsuba_001/e/4e8cb3aa1475ff8cc12df328afa9d67a. Another very similar example is in Sasano's second English language book (black with the silver dust cover) on page 339. Enjoy, feel free to discuss, and provide any other Higo tsuba you like to add to the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Hallam Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 David I fear you may have misunderstood which 'dandy' is being referenced in the title you cite. Dandyism is a very different concept from something being 'dandy', and as defined by the dictionary you quoted. Dandyism is/was essentially the male persuit of sartorial elegance. Some definitions might suggest a degree intellectual sophistication also. I haven't read the Me no me article but I imagine Dandyism might be equated with the Japanese terms 'Iki' or 'tsu' although Dandyism is far more overt than the Japanese aesthetic expressions. As such Dandyism as expressed via iron tosogu would be less about what is considered 'best' but more about signalling socially one's refined stylishness. And I don't think Yokan refers to the colour of a tsuba but rather the subtle surface texture as displayed on a piece of Yokan. "Yōkan (羊羹) is a thick, jellied dessert made of red bean paste, agar, and sugar." 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Dandy-ism best defined by the noun version of a dandy:- A dandy (also known as a beau or gallant) is a man who places particular importance upon physical appearance, refined language, and leisurely hobbies, pursued with the appearance of nonchalance in a cult of Self. Refers to men who consider themselves to be arbiters of culture and refinement and wit. The article itself is a very good primer, and is a must have for anyone into tosogu. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soshin Posted March 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Hi Ford and Brian, Thanks for the replying to my topic. Ford, not really sure what Markus was referring to in the title as I have never seen the original Japanese article but I suspect you are correct. In regards to yōkan I have never seen it written in Kanji as my wife purchased a package from a Japanese market which had yōkan written in Hiragana on the label. I used the food label as the basis of my topic post. I see you point in regards to the texture. The color reference for yōkan I remember discussing with Mike Y. on NMB. This could just be a misunderstand on my part or I am misremembering Mike Y. comment about yōkan-sabi as a kantei point for the Hayashi and Kamiyoshi Schools of Higo Province. Moving on I Would like to discuss the meaning of the openwork design. It looks like the design has been around in one from or another since the time of Matshichi the Shodai of the Hayashi School as indicated in weblink above. The particular variation of this design was I think first used by Tohachi the Sandai of the Hayashi School. What is the deeper meaning if any of the cherry blossoms and mist surrounding by a chrysanthemum flower? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 And I don't think Yokan refers to the colour of a tsuba but rather the subtle surface texture as displayed on a piece of Yokan. It is indeed the color the Hayashi tsuba are referred to as the term used is yôkan-iro (羊羹色). And you are right, the Japanese term used is iki. Well, like most of the other Japanese aesthetic terms, the term or rather concept of iki is pretty complex. Sometimes iki is just translated with "elegance" or "style" but that is IMHO too ambiguous or too "meaningless." I had exactly this discussion a while ago when translating texts on Akasaka-tsuba and came to the conclusion to translate, for the time being, iki as "Dandyism" as this is the term I think that transports most of the original aesthetic concept of iki. Of course, several things in Dandyism don't go in line with iki but pretty many do. So purely on the basis of quantitatively weighing up the matches and mismatches of Dandyism and iki and with the aim to find an as single-termed translation as possible, I think Dandyism is still best choice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Hallam Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Hi Marcus I can sympathise with your struggle to find a single English word for such a complex aesthetic concept. You probably know this book but for anyone wanting to get a serious grasp on the subject I would recommend "The Structure of Iki" by Kuki Shūzō 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John A Stuart Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Does not 'dandyism' connote a negative assesment? 粋 seems more in tune with 'stylish', and leaves the assesment of style to individual tastes. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John A Stuart Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 I wonder how 9, 10 and rice form the thought behind the concept. 90% to overall goodness, value(rice). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soshin Posted March 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 It is indeed the color the Hayashi tsuba are referred to as the term used is yôkan-iro (羊羹色). Hi Markus, Thanks for the above reply. I was fairly sure I remembered correctly Mike Y. comments to me about a yōkan like color of the patina of the Hayashi and Kamiyoshi Schools but it always helpful for a independent confirmation. I have came across on a shinsa paper the following term meaning "polished iron surface" on a tsuba (tetsu migaki-ji 鉄磨地). Below is an example of a tsuba with a NTHK-NPO paper that was once in my collection. Notice the third vertical line counting from the right with the printed header (下地) below written is (鉄磨地). P.S. To the current owner if you don't want me to post this photo please PM and I or one of the moderators with remove the photo. I am posting this just educational purposes only. Hi John S., You lost me on your last post. Are you referring to something about the openwork design? I hope all is well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John A Stuart Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 No, the radicals that make up the kanji 'iki'. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soshin Posted March 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 No, the radicals that make up the kanji 'iki'. JohnHi Everyone, John, ok that clears it up looking at the Kanji for 'iki'. I noticed that Higo tsuba as a large group have a tendency toward exhibiting either and 'iki' or 'wabi-sabi' aesthetic. I will allow for more comments until the weekend and then I will post another Higo tsuba from my collection for discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guido Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 I own two books, 江戸のダンディズム (Edo no dandyism) by 河上繁樹 (Kawakami Shigeki), and 士・日本のダンディズム (samurai – nihon no dandyism) published by 二玄社 (Nigensha); in both it is clear that the authors think of dandyism as part of iki 粋. If the Japanese see it that way, Markus' translation is good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soshin Posted March 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 Hi, Guido, it is good enough for me. Any final comments about my dandy tsuba? I did received some very nice comment via PM which lead to a wonderful conversation via email so posting this wasn't a complete waste but I did wish there was more of a public discussion about the tsuba. Did pick up another Higo tsuba at the Tampa show. I might post that later this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soshin Posted March 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2015 Hi Everyone, Here is the other Higo tsuba I picked up at the Tampa show. It is the work of the Kumagai (熊谷) School that were retainers of the Hosokawa Clan based near their estate in Edo. The inlays are in two different styles and soft metals (characteristic of the schools work) one is a brass robe inlay (shinchu nawame-zogan 真鍮縄目象嵌) and the other is silver crosshatched inlay (gin-nunome-zogan 銀布目象嵌). The designs are of three rain hats on the omote and two rain hats on the ura side. This tsuba is going to be listed on the homepage of my website come the first of April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soshin Posted March 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 Hi Everyone, With some technical problems a last few days wasn't able to visit NMB. The opening to the left and right of the nakago hitsu-ana are not ryohitsu-ana but are part of a design often found on Higo tsuba. Frequently these type of openwork design are referred to only as basically hidari-migi dai-sukashi" in Japanese meaning "left-right large openwork Any idea what they might represent or if they are discussed as something else in other Japanese texts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Wilson Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 I wonder how 9, 10 and rice form the thought behind the concept. 90% to overall goodness, value(rice). I was digging through my library and found these references to the symbolism of rice, 9 and 10 in Chinese art. It might be some interesting food for thought on the rationale behind why 粋 was constructed the way that it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Wilson Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 No need to get sarcastic David. I thought I was contributing to an otherwise dead thread. I also found this on prunus which might have relevance to the Japanese cherry blossom (Prunus serrulata). Delete at will.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Wilson Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 You are welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soshin Posted March 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 No need to get sarcastic David. This is not direct towards you Henry directly who hasn't been on the NMB for awhile. When I am treated condescendingly on this form in regards to a subject that I study, take seriously, and take time to post topics, and write articles about, sarcasm is fair game. I done with sharing on this forum period. Check out Facebook my website, or my JSSUS articles for updates to my collection. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teimei Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 That is a pitty, i always enjoyed your topics ! May i ask what happened? It seams that some of the Posts were deleted. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guido Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 That is a pitty, i always enjoyed your topics ! No worries, Florian, he already started posting again at this thread http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/16383-nbthk-papering-of-higo-tsuba/. Or, as the former German chancellor Konrad Adenauer said: "Wat kümmert mich ming Jeschwätz von jestern?" ("What do I care about yesterday's silly talk?") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Wilson Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 I sincerely apologise for being the catalyst for all this trouble. My posts above were intended to contribute and I hope were not condescending or in any other way derogatory. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soshin Posted March 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 Hi Henry, Absolutely you are not the problem I see with NMB which has a double standard applied to members when it comes to following rules. Chris Bowen and me had a discussion about this back the Tampa show a couple of years ago during a NTHK-NPO shinsa. Lately it has gotten to a breaking point with me. I might be overreacting but I have always had a strong sense of fairness when dealing with people. I very much appreciate all of your participation in this and all other topics on NMB. I will be spending a significant amount of time in Japan in April so I will likely not have time for much participation on NMB. This I feel is a blessing from the Buddha. P.S. I am currently working on my website to have it up to date by April 1st please check it out when you have some free time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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