Using a nihonto for iaido..

[Kevin Adams]

Hi everyone...I realize that this may a touchy subject with some, but my sensei has not-so-subtly suggested that I should consider finding a nihonto to practice iaido with. I was therefore wondering how realistic it would be to find something that was in a "budget" price range. I realize that this is a little much to ask for, but I'd be willing to look at swords that may be a little "tired", with kizu and have maybe been over-polished. By no means would I want to train with a sword worthy of preservation and study (since I also enjoy studying them like everyone else here). Here's a list of a criteria that I came up with...

 

1. Age - Koto or Shinto, but I'd consider a Shinshinto blade as well. Part of the appeal of this idea to me is training with an old sword. Also, I find that these older swords are sometimes slimmer because of several hundreds of years of polishing, and a little more bearable to use during longer practice sessions...

 

2. School - I'm still learning about characteristics of different traditions, but I'm on a Bizen kick right now since I'm reading Robert Benson and Darcy Brockbank's book. I also like swords that I've seen of the Soshu school. Not overly picky here.

 

3. Does not need to be "perfect" - A somewhat tired blade with kizu is fine, depending on the condition, of course. It will see a lot of movement in and out of its saya, so it should be solid enough to take that, but non-fatal flaws aren't a big deal.

 

4. Does not need a full polish - Self-explanatory...I'd consider a blade that needs some rust spots cleaned up, but it doesn't have to have an "art" polish.

 

5. MUST BE LONG ENOUGH FOR ME! I'm 5' 9" so a 28.5" - 30" nagasa is optimal.

 

5. Should be decently balanced - It's for iai after all

 

6. MUST HAVE A BO-HI! One of my senseis is trying to find someone to put a bo-hi in his sword, and is having a really hard time. I'd prefer not to go through that hassle.

 

7. Koshirae not necessary - I plan to get it completely remounted, so a bare blade is just fine.

 

So there you have it. I'm trying really hard to be realistic in what I'm looking for, and I certainly don't want to offend anyone by using an antique for iai practice. I'm merely looking to use a blade that may not be used for anything else, or appreciated because it's not in great condition.

 

I cruise most of the websites that sell nihonto on a fairly regular basis, but they all seem to keep swords that I'd rather stare at for hours with a magnifying glass and would feel guilty training with. I was hoping that people here might be able to point me in the right direction, or at least let me know if I need to revise my criteria somewhat...I just can't seem to find anything like what I've just described, so maybe you guys know of a seller that might have something...

 

Just to clarify, I probably won't be seriously in the market until 2008 since I have a trip to Japan to pay for in November, but you never know when a deal will pop up...

 

Thanks everyone!

[Gabriel L]

Hi,

 

A long Koto Bizen blade is likely going to be expensive, rare, and desirable. But I don't know, maybe there is something of poor workmanship and in poor enough condition that despite being old and long, yet of high enough artistry to be recognizably Bizen work, it will still be inexpensive and not worth preservation. If you don't need it to be textbook koto Bizen workmanship, then things loosen a little.

 

Here's a Koto blade that could be good for iai: http://www.japanesesword.com/Images/Swo ... 6kat7.html

 

A better idea (IMHO) would be to go for a gendai/showato or shinshinto piece. Some people use mantetsu, which are very functional but not as expensive (see http://www.legacyswords.com/fs_ant_daito9.htm). Aoi Art has a specifically targeted "iaido" section for usable but inexpensive (not too artful) nihonto, most of which are gendai or shinshinto blades: http://www.aoi-art.com/ (just one blade in that section as of this post, but they have high turnover).

 

Some other possibilities:

http://www.legacyswords.com/fs_ant_daito3.htm

http://www.japanesesword.com/Images/Swo ... katana.htm

http://www.japanesesword.com/Images/Swo ... ndai4.html

http://www.japanesesword.com (lots of inexpensive items, might be something usable though most were a bit shorter than your range)

 

EDIT: yes, I realize none of the examples linked except the last have bo-hi, but I think you're either going to need to reduce your criteria, keep an eagle eye out for a while, or get lucky. The NMB has lists of sword sellers on its main page - I'd suggest you peruse all of them exhaustively. Oh, and Dr. Stein's page (The Japanese Sword Guide) has commercial links as well, although going through every one will take a while.

 

Cheers,

-GLL

[paul V]

Kevin

 

The use of a real antique nihonto for iaido might indeed be a bit touchy. It is not very respectful to use an artistic antique blade that has been cherished by generations of owners and risk to damage it, unless one is very high skilled. But of course there are also lower quality blades which can be used.

When I started collecting years ago, one of the first blades I bought was a koto period bizen blade that was used for years for iaido. It was a very flashy blade but it was tired and had kizu. I was very pleased with it as it was my first real Japanese sword.

But after some time, like all collectors, I wanted better swords and this blade didn’t fit in my collection anymore.

So, as these blades are not really collector’s items, I see no reason why they couldn’t be used for iaido (by skilled people of course as they are still dangerous weapons).

 

Paul

p.s. this sword is for sale, if you’re interested, PM me.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

3. OMISSIS It will see a lot of movement in and out of its saya, so it should be solid enough to take that.

 

4. Does not need a full polish - Self-explanatory...I'd consider a blade that needs some rust spots cleaned up, but it doesn't have to have an "art" polish.

 

5. MUST BE LONG ENOUGH FOR ME! I'm 5' 9" so a 28.5" - 30" nagasa is optimal.

 

5. Should be decently balanced - It's for iai after all

 

6. MUST HAVE A BO-HI! One of my senseis is trying to find someone to put a bo-hi in his sword, and is having a really hard time. I'd prefer not to go through that hassle.

 

7. Koshirae not necessary - I plan to get it completely remounted, so a bare blade is just fine.

 

All these requirements makes me thinking about a brand new blade

made by an american smith. Not a NihonTo but less expensive,

MUCH more easier to have it in your measurements (sori too...)

being custom made, possibly better balance then most low-end antiques,

usable for tameshigiri too in the future, with no regrets.

Such smiths can provide you the mounting too.

Of course, if genuine NihonTo are required by your snensei, don't mind about my lines...

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Paul Martin]

Or a new blade made by a Japanese smith....meeting all the requirements and supporting the craft.

 

Best

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Or a new blade made by a Japanese smith....meeting all the requirements and supporting the craft.

 

Best

 

 

A good advice this too.

 

Emerging nihonto smith's blades can also be an investment.

[Kevin Adams]

Thank you very much for the replies guys! This topic has caused a few arguments on my end so I wasn't sure how to broach the subject...

 

I'm torn between the two extremes in this case - finding an older sword thereby continuing to use it in "the matter for which it was made" (paraphrased from an emphatic comment made by one of my more over-enthusiastic sempai :lol: ), or getting a shinsakuto made, preserving the antiques for study and "supporting the craft", as Paul said.

 

I realize the criteria I listed above are a little too exacting...what it really boils down to are length, balance, bohi and condition - I suppose it's one of those things where I'll have to keep hunting until something jumps up and makes itself noticed (kind of like how I bought my Koto wakizashi)...

 

Think I'll head over to japanesesword.com and have another look at the 30" shinshinto blade they have over there...

 

Thanks again!

[John A Stuart]

Hi Kevin, Although I believe that an advanced student that has nailed down a good noto and nuki will not harm an old blade, I think support for new smiths is a good thing. However I am concerned with the feeling that only a sword made in Japan is worth buying. There are some very good quality swords made in the traditional manner outside of Japan and these smiths need our support as well No harangue so 'nuff said. Just a thought. John

[Kevin Adams]

John, I absolutely agree with you! My original plan was to commission a custom blade from Walter Sorrells or Rick Barrett since they're closer (well, in the US, anyways) and can therefore be more involved in the process...getting on their waiting lists are another thing altogether! But that's beyond the scope of this forum, I think...

 

For now I think I'll just keep my eyes open and wait for an opportunity to appear...I still kind of like the idea of using a Japanese-made blade for a Japanese sword art - keeps it "in the family", as it were...

 

Thanks again, everyone!

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Kevin, PM sent. That's not about NihonTo so it doesn't belongs to here

but maybe is of high interest to you.

[remzy]

http://www.nihonto.us/ISHIDO%20TERUHIDE%20KATANA.htm

 

I dont know... not koto or shinto but i still find it looks fairly priced. If treated with good cares this should be good.

 

 

some more:

http://www.nihonkatana.com/index.php?op ... &Itemid=27

 

http://moderntosho.com/sale/Sadanori.htm

 

 

Remy