Jump to content

Damaged in Transit. (Noooooooooo!)


USMC-LCPL

Recommended Posts

It was a very open discussion in advance with Charles.

He was informed that the blade is in a condition that needs a polish and he was informed that the saya wasn`t ever made for this sword. It seems that one of the previous owners just used this saya because it was available somewhere in a corner.

I tried to do something with the saya, splitted it to see if there is a chance to correct it but stopped this immediately because I saw that the curvature plus the height wasn`t ever done for this sword.

 

So I wrapped the complete blade in transparent kitchen foil to prevent it to get surface scratches, then placed it in the saya, pressed everything together and taped it outside. So from my point of view it was impossible that something moves.

 

The handle wasn`t installed because together with this there simply wasn`t enough space in the cardbox. In total there where around 10cm of air to both ends. These ends where filled with foam rubber and the whole blade incl. the saya was wrapped in bubble foil. The package was so tight with filling material that any move was impossible! The foam rubber was around 5cm of thickness. Imagine yourself which power is needed to get a blade to move:

1. out of the taped saya

2. through the foam rubber

 

It must have been a massive drop! Or The customs did open it and something went wrong there or at least something else.....

 

I swear that the blade was 100% intact before packaging, you can see this easily on the pictures.

 

I think it is more that Charles is not satisfied with the complete condition oft the sword, nor I was, and thats more or less why he claims so hard. But thats live, it was communicated that it is a project and thats all.

So anyhow, because he stated he will get a polish for it, so now it is "just" the tip on top.

 

Get it polished and feel happy. This sword is a eternal wayfarer and I am sure it will never find a home........

 

P.S.

 

Still I am waiting for an excuse! I don`t like it to get the light of a criminal!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

may be we can all learn from this................

 

an old timer told me ..............take pics and keep pics !!

One time he sold a set of menuki with the most beautiful solid black patina. Buyer decided to " high light " the age by rubbing off certain area to show " wear "............then decided he made a boo-boo , you can all guess what happened next. Now PLEASE do not come to the conclusion that I am taking anyone's side, this is just one example to stress the importance of documentation.

 

 

Now this sword was purchased from ORIGINAL owner ( Mr. A ) with a bent tip, next owner ( Mr. B ) had it repaired and then re-sold to Mr. C.

 

So the sword passing from Mr. B to Mr. C should have no damage and yet there's a bend ( after opening the box )................

 

I am sure all 3 parties when they buy/sell have lots of before/after pics as we do not buy stuffs sight unseen ( not even on e-bay !! )!!

pics from Mr. A should all have bent tip.

pics from Mr. B should have pics of both bent AND repaired tips.

pics from Mr. C should all have bent tip.

Compare pics !!!!!

 

If the pics were deleted after the $ changed hands and before the " buyer remorse grace period, aka examination period " expires................ then we have a problem.

 

milt the ronin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd normally keep my beak out of this as it's a matter between Andreas and Charles. But since my name has come up, I'll drop my 2 cents.

 

The blade was originally mine and I sold it to Andreas a few months back. Prior to that the owner was the neighbor of a vet in Tennesee who had kept the blade in his attic since he brought it back from the war (cliche but true story I assure you).

 

The blade was not damaged before I sent it to Andreas (it recieved a 73 point evaluation and kanteisho papers at the NTHK NY shinsa back in Fall of 06.) Unfortunately, when I sent it to Andreas, it was damaged in transit. The damage can be seen in Andreas' pictures. He also has pictures of the box where the hole can be seen.

 

Naturally we were both upset but we worked out an amicable solution. Andreas can attest that I offered him every courtesy in the matter and I can attest that Andreas was patient, understanding and civil.

 

What I can say is that the kissaki in Andreas' repaired photo is NOT in the condition of the original kissaki and it does look repaired.

 

As for the saya, there was indeed a couple of centimeters of clearance (about 4 - 5 CM longer than the blade.) The mouth and bottom were cut to fit a kojiri and kurikata (which were missing). So in its original state it shouldn't look like either end was "sawed off". Again this is condition I sent it in (I have pictures to prove it.)

 

I'm not taking sides or validating anyone's argument. But what I do recommend Charles is to work it out with Andreas. From my dealings with him, he's a fair and understanding guy. As Brian mentioned, emotions are high but I have no doubt things can be worked out.

 

Lastly, in my opinion this is a blade that deserves a polish. Hopefully someone can provide that for it. I had originally offered the new owner my spot with David Hofhine (the spot opens up in Sept 07). I have been holding that spot for almost a year but I'll give it up to you Charles if you're interested.

 

It's my opinion the blade has enough boshi to survive the restoration.

 

Good luck to all.

 

mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right!

 

After I received it from Mike this is what I got:

13.JPG

14.JPG

15.JPG

16.JPG

 

And here are the pics I sended the morning before Charles agreed to buy it:

 

6.JPG

7.JPG

8.JPG

9.JPG

10.JPG

11.JPG

12.JPG

 

In one thing I have to correct Mike a bit. One end of the saya was open and the paint was partially away. Zhis may look like it was cutted but again I didn`t. I just splitted the saya to see if there is a repair possible to make it a better fit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

okay here come my metalworking skills.......

 

i have had these things happen with a few Roman Gladii....

 

now here is what must have happened....

 

the kissaki was bent, then repolished... which means the kissaki was bent

forward and polished...

 

problem when doing this is that the metal keeps soft in the exact spot.

 

thing goes in transit and falls, with a LOGICAL result that the tip bends in virtually the exact same manner, being soft..

 

the only solution is for someone to rework the tip completely, since the other solution (strenghtening the kissaki again) is

to hammer it back into shape, reheat and re-cool it

again so that it gets hardened again

(ruining the sword much more than a reshaped kissaki would do)

 

since these problems also often happened in the age of the Samurai,

and kissaki were very often reshaped, there is NOTHING wrong with reshaping it.........

 

it wont make the papers any less valid, and you can always re-shinsa it...

 

so whats the fuss?

 

if its a money question, i must say that i would almost want to demand that you act in a SAMURAI manner!!

 

so... sorry to say this, but stop whining and sort it out friendly.

 

excuses are always a nice thing, and well if the both of you

truly feel your honour has been damaged and you have

lost face, you can always still open your stomach and restore it...

 

(which i would not advise since its a messy business)

 

just sort it out............ ONEGAI SHIMASU!!!

 

KM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know everything is legal in the Netherland and all...........but it's too freakin' early in the day !!

 

 

" now here is what must have happened....

 

the kissaki was bent, then repolished... which means the kissaki was bent

forward and polished... "

 

judging from the latest pics from mr. B.......the bend was snapped off ( looks that way in the pics ) And re-polished later

 

 

milt the ronin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And Mr.B says: :)

No it wasn`t bend back. The only way to restore a Kissaki is to accept that some material will be lost. That does mean that the damaged part was polished "off" and the the whole curvature of the Kissaki (Ha) was reshaped!

 

Everything else is B-$hit!

 

But still there is 5-8mm material left after this to reshape the Kissaki again. Anyhow, as stated before, the blade needs a polish. So it`s an easy task for a polisher to do the minor repair. It`s ot more,

 

The whole story about is that I don`t like to get named a lier and cheater!

 

So this was my last statement to this. Everything is said and sorted out.

 

End of story. I am looking forward to my new sword and saw today it arrived at customs. Yippee!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok..how about this:

1)Andreas says rightfully that the saya was longer than the blade.

2)Charles says that the saya was too short, and the blade sticks out the front.

3)Mike says that the kojiri was not there, leaving the bottom open, but with space and clearance for the blade tip.

 

I believe the kissaki was bent, reshaped and was in good condition on shipping it.

 

Andreas, I do believe your method of wrapping the blade in cling film, and then putting it in the saya (even with tape and bubble wrap) was not enough, and in being dropped end on, the blade shifted down into the saya, with the end of the blade comming right through the bottom of the saya, and either hitting something hard (floor or wood on the saya?) and bending the tip.

 

This would explain why Charles, on opening the package, would see the blade sticking out of the end of the saya, and looking like the saya was too short.

 

This does explain both sides. Whether you 2 can agree that this happened is up to you. I would like to see you both agree on someor other probability, and come to an agreement like Mike did with Andreas.

Try and see the situation from the POV of the other guy, and try and understand their feelings, and maybe this can become civil again.

 

I am only letting this discussion carry on to serve as a warning to both buyer and sellers, and as an education into packing Nihonto.

If you keep it fairly civil, I will let the discussion go on, otherwise I will be forced to lock it.

 

Regards,

Brian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I fully agree with Brian on this...

 

About packaging swords... whenever we go on display with the Romans, when we transport swords and Pila without scabbards, we stick a piece of cork on the tips....... this generally prevents anything from happening in case a crate opens or a Pilum slides through.......

 

maybe, apart from packaging the blade if not in a closed saya, doing this with Nihonto might be a solution.

 

Other ways of packaging could maybe be discussed in a new topic?

 

KM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

looks like I should have done the Packing Nihonto 101 post I wanted to do in June, I agree with BR the packing was circumstance to the bending of the tip and such bears the burden of repair. My take for what its worth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You cannot over pack a sword. I like to use strips of hardwood if no saya is available. bags of foam and tape.

There seems to be enough boshi to fix the tip "again". This will need to be the last time, and I'M not sure the shape of the fukure will be the same. But, it does look fixable.

Polishing this is the 'ONLY' way this can be fixed. Sure a heck, no heat is involved. That would destroy the temper of the boshi that is there, and would ruin the sword.

I have seen much worst fixed. Not a bad little sword. If it papered at last fall's shinsa it must be a gem.

You guys work it out. It was likely dropped by the shippers. Give them hell first. go all the way to the top. Regestered letters.

Mark G

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just about packing sword (it's gone to be hard because of my English)

 

I once had a wak polished and the polisher send it back to me in this way :

 

He has cut a blank/board a bit longer and larger than the wak

 

The polish blade was wrapped in fine paper (what we call call silk paper in French).

 

The blade was first fixed to the board by screw Going through the Mekugi ana, (the screw body was smaller then the mekugi ana but the head, larger)

 

Then the blade was strapped on the board, impossible for it to move from the board.

 

The package tube was then filled with the usual chips ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...

I finally had the Wakizashi shown to Bob Benson today. He had absolutely no idea what to make of the damage, but said that it was well within his power to repair.

 

Either way, I'm ready to move on about this damned business. To date, I refuse to believe that the sword was damaged in transit: There was no hole in the side of the box, nor was there any hole in the cardboard tubing that Andreas placed the exposed blade inside. The sword was damaged before it was placed in the box. Fin.

 

However, I don't give a damn about reparations or refunds. 300 bucks is a small price to pay for the lesson learned.

 

And meeting Bob Benson was worth the drama anyway. That guy is cool. 8)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...