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Damaged in Transit. (Noooooooooo!)


USMC-LCPL

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I recently purchased an O-Wakizashi from a member of this site. I just got it today... and the first thing I saw was a tiny hole in the side of the box.

 

Oh... S***... :shock:

 

Sure enough, the tip now has a slight bend/curl roughly two or three millimeters in length. Pictures are forthcoming.

 

Is a (slightly) bent tip a fatal flaw? I looked at the flaws link, and it only mentions chipped tips.

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A 2- 3 mm bent tip or even if broken is not a fatal flaw in itself and can be corrected in polish, as long as there remains a sufficient boshi. A boshi that after being corrected might run too close to the edge (not good) or actually runs off the edge (fatal flaw) is of real concern. Of course an original boshi is preferable.

 

There was a previous discussion about altered boshi, including drawn in changes. If not mistaken it was initiated by Darcy, perhaps you could do a search.

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What????????

 

I packed it so well including styrofoam and it was secured on both ends and still went through the package???

 

On top it was in the saya and taped! So that would mean that someone really must have thrown it !

 

Can´t believe this!

 

Can you do pictures?

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The big question is if the tip can be straightened without breaking it off.

I am sometimes confused by bent or curled tips, as the boshi should be hard, and I would have thought that it would snap off instead of curling.

I was present when an acquaintance dropped a sword point first onto a carpet (gives me nightmares) and curled the last 4mm into a tight curl without snapping off.

I would be very cautious about straightening it again, and consult with a polisher who can tell you if it can be straightened and how.

If I remember, you are in Hawaii, so I would take it straight to Bob Benson, and let him advise.

 

Brian

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I am sure Charles did not open the parcel!

 

The Box had that hole already when I sended it away! It was that hole that caused the first damage of the Kissaki when I received it from another NMB Member but was repaired afterwards.

 

I am sure that charles saw this hole and did not go through the package!

Whyever he did the posting in advance is quite curious........

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Charles, if you're out here in Hawaii, drop me an e-mail (iaido@catii.com) & I'll help you find a way to get the repairs done locally. Bob Benson is very good, but is so busy that he hasn't finished one of my projects. There's another good togishi who's a lot easier to get to. I'm in Kaneohe, so if you're out at MCBH, it'll be easy to get together.

 

A flaw is fatal only if you're planning to either use or sell the o-wakizashi, of course, but I realize that no one likes to get a new Nihonto that our wonderful mail system has mauled....

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hey guys,

 

can you please stop to speculate until charles has confirmed that the sword is really damaged! I believe he just had seen the hole in the box and "thinks" that the sword is damaged!

 

It was packed in a way that a damage is close to impossible until someone dropped it from a 10m high wall to concrete!

 

So lets see what charles will write when he opened it fully or had send some pictures!

 

I am sure its just a suggestion instead of a fact!

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A bent tip is not a fatal flaw.

If it snaps off, and the hamon then runs off the boshi, then it is fatal. If the tip breaks off, and there is still boshi there, then it is not fatal. If the bend causes a crack that runs through the hamon (hagire) then it is fatal.

If it is just bent or curled, then it is not fatal, and can probably be repaired.

 

I suggest you 2 work out any shipping or transactional queries via pm, and post pics for us to advise on the solution.

 

You say it is a slightly bend. Perhaps it is no-where near as bad as we are imagining. Post a pic. Perhaps there is no new damage at all, and it is only a very slight wiggle that came from the previous repair that you are seeing.

As mentioned by Andreas, let's wait for the pics before jumping to confusions :)

 

Brian

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hey guys,

 

can you please stop to speculate until charles has confirmed that the sword is really damaged! I believe he just had seen the hole in the box and "thinks" that the sword is damaged!

 

It was packed in a way that a damage is close to impossible until someone dropped it from a 10m high wall to concrete!

 

So lets see what charles will write when he opened it fully or had send some pictures!

 

I am sure its just a suggestion instead of a fact!

 

 

" Sure enough, the tip now has a slight bend/curl roughly two or three millimeters in length."

now if the box has not been opened, then he must have X-ray vision !!

 

milt the ronin

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ouch, I am no sword expert, but I assume straitening that would possibly or probably (?) cause a hargiri if not break it clean off.

 

That looks like it was dropped clean on it's end, but I wonder, had it happened in transit, would not the kissaki have broken through the end of the shirasaya or at least split it ? The Kissaki should (am I right ?) have a good centimetre or more clear air between the tip and the end of the space carved in the shirasaya.

 

I am not looking to cause trouble, just trying to understand how this could happen. Maybe a clumsy customs man dropped it during inspection?.

 

Cheers

 

Rich

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Ouch!!!!!

 

I think that Charles can underline that I tried to pack it as good as possible.

 

This looks like that someone really must have thrown the parcel! The blade was wrapped in clear kitchen foil, than in the saya, this all than was wrapped and taped in bubble foil and on bot ends was styrofoam with at least 8-10 cm air between to the walls of the cardbox. This also was filled with stuf to prevent the bunch of moving !

 

maybe it would have been a better idea to left the tsuka on the blade but afterwards everybody is more clever.......

 

I am really sorry for this Charles and hope that your polisher can find a way to remove this!

 

The sad thing is that this is already the second time this happened. When I first got it from another NMB Member the same happened with him. It was already repaired here from a polisher. But I know there is still enough "flesh" left before a polisher will touch the boshi (5-8 mm). I would ask him first to try if it can be bend back, anyway here is no danger because it is already damaged. So if this will fail he anyway needs to polish it away and as you know a complete polish would anyhow be neccessary!

 

Because it is a longer Kissaki and the Yokote isn`t clear after these hundred of years he can reshape the complete Kissaki in a way the curve and symmetry will be kept.

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I did say it can probably be repaired ;)

This is a nasty one, although I have seen worse.

I do think it can be repaired without losing the tip, but of course only an expert will be able to tell you for sure.

I recommend taking a few shots from all angles, and sending them to Bob to at least ask what he thinks. He might be too busy to take on a new job right now, but I am sure he will be able to give you an educated opinion.

From what I can see (very limited) it isn't fatal though, even if it broke off.

I can only imaging what they did to it to make it bend like that. That parcel must have been an impromptu rugby ball or something. :evil:

 

Brian

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Hey guys,

 

Ouch!

 

Think of this as a learning experience - shipping sharp pointy things

requires a fair amount of care - remember that the sender is liable if

somebody is injured by a sword in transit in additon to the damage

that can be sustained by the sword/koshirae itself :-(

 

That said, a really good way to ship un-mounted pieces is to use the

"Chris Bowen" method - you get a plank of wood big enough for the sword

to lay on w/o sticking off anywhere (I like to use oak), mark the

nakago ana on the plank, drill a hole there, wrap the blade as appropriate

for your level of paranoia, punch a hole through the packaging at the nakago ana,

and then tie or wire (Mr. Bowen recommended copper wire) the blade to

the plank through the ana - you can then tie or duck tape the wrapped

blade to the plank in many places to keep it from moving.

 

Best,

 

rkg

(Richard George)

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Hi folks,

exactly the same thing happened to me sometimes ago, with a fresh polished nagamaki naoshi (in mounts :!: ). Therefore I know, that there is no chance to straighten the tip :(

At that time I took it back to the Togi (visit him ;) ) and he polished it out the same day.

Uwe

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Is it possible that there is something at the inside base of the saya that is causing this? As it has happened two times maybe there is a foreign object at the far end inside which when the blade is pushed all the way in is causing this to happen. Just a thought.

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Is it possible that there is something at the inside base of the saya that is causing this? As it has happened two times maybe there is a foreign object at the far end inside which when the blade is pushed all the way in is causing this to happen. Just a thought.

I don't think that's possible, I'm afraid. The saya that it shipped with had the far side sawed off so that the blade would fit. It was only included for limited protection of the blade during transit and offers no protection to the tip- which sticks out well over a centimeter.

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I was told by Andreas that the package was going to be insured. I've sent him a PM asking him to start the claims process... I hope the insurance covers the cost of goods damaged in transit...

 

It was previously stated that it was shipped via DHL. Do you still have the waybill that would have arrived on the packaging? There should be a box where the value of the item is written for insurance purposes. If there is nothing in that box, it usually is insured a small amount $100 - $200, for example. If you have the insurable amount information, you could phone DHL yourself and talk to a representative about making a claim. If you can get an estimate concerning the repair of this sword you can mention this to the DHL representative as well. The best case scenario would be that DHL agrees to pay you an amount (number put down as value of item on waybill, or the price to repair the item, or some other such agreed upon number) and you get to keep the blade.

 

If the sender makes the claim, then he gets the credit, and you will have to decide between yourselves who keeps the blade, money, etc.

 

I used to have to deal with couriers and damages all the time during my tenure as a warehouse manager. Policies and procedures may have changed in the years since I was in that position.

 

Good luck and let us know how things turn out!

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OK guys,

 

it gets nasty now.

 

I have nothing to hide so here is an update.

 

After all, Charles thinks that I try to hijack him and he thinks that I sended the sword already damaged to him!

 

I am not that type of guy. It is for everybody visible here in this board that the sword was damaged when I received it the first time from Mike Yeon.

 

It arrived like this

3.jpg

 

After that I polished the Kissake and it loked like this:

4.jpg

5.jpg

 

There is no picture from the moment I did in in the parcel..... :roll: (I doubt someone is doing this anyway)

 

This is how I sended it to Charles.

 

The reason for my sale was that I was not satisfied with the total quality of the sword. It did not match my needs.

 

It was judged by a polisher in advance here in germany http://www.japanschwerter.de (NBTHK Member) and he said that he never saw a that good polish from someone that did not had training before until he had seen my work. He did`n even recognize that the Kissaki was bended and repaired until I told him.

 

So, in the above post Charles mentioned that the sword sticks 1 cm out of the saya! The saya is 8 cm longer than the sword! When I sended the sword away, the sword was not looking out of the saya at all!

 

With all respect to Charles I have to say that I am irritated to imply me to cheat him and that I have sended the sword already damaged.

 

I mean, it is really sad and I really tried to pack everything as much good as possible but at least what can I do against a forwarder that drops the parcel that much hard that the sword went through something?

 

It is always a risk that something gets damaged in transport. Basically thats all what happened!

 

Charles is saying that there is no hole somewhere visible that underscores that the sword went through the inner package and thats why he thinks I cheat him. There wasn`t even some cardbox around the sword where he can see this. It was just the saya and bubble foil and styrofoam. So where the hell do you expect to see a punch through??

 

Sorry guys, thats word against word. Argumenting like this implies me to say: Hey maybe you dropped it yourself?

 

Bottom Line:

 

The sword was sended in a 100% condition from germany to hawai in a package I think it was well protected.

It arrived damaged.

I am sorry.

I am not responsible.

I am not feeling guilty.

 

Try to claim DHL local.

There is nothing I can do here in germany because for international parcels the receiver is responsible to do the claim.

Insurance is only for €500,-- and only for total loss.

Anyway it was in a condition it needs a polish.

That was known and communicated.

Try to get it repaired.

 

End of story!

 

 

 

 

:roll:

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most likely the custom dude/dudette dropped it when he/she examined the sword .

I have a bunch of scroll paintings " ducked taped " together after the agent from Fish and Wildlife agency examined the package ( paintings shipped from Japan " ). The agency usually identified themselves after they opened and re-packaged the examined the items.

 

milt the ronin

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Well if you do not resolve this you can always

agree to meet somewhere halfway,

and draw your swords to fight it out,

since according to bushido honour must be restored.

 

I feel a bit sad that this discussion, however valid it may seem,

since it is often during transport stuff gets damaged,

is degrading into a:

 

I did you did he did struggle.....

 

get it sorted out amongst yourselves please....

 

ganbatte kure!

 

KM

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Charles and Andreas,

 

I can sympathise with both sides of the story. Andres, I am sure you can understand how Charles would be disappointed, and I hope you will be patient with him as emotions run high. The fact is that it should be packed in such a way that it cannot possibly be damaged.

It is curious to hear differing stories about how the saya was too short or not. Guys..I think you both need to look into this and see if there was some tampering along the way.

Both of you need to work together to sort this out, and not just lat the blame lie on the other side. Seems to me there is definitely some parcel tampering.

A good buyer and seller will listen to the other side of the story, and see if they can reach some middle ground.

Please see if you can work it out amongst you 2, and come to a mutually acceptable compromise.

Good luck...but please no bickering on the forum.

 

Brian

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Charles,

 

please do us all a favour. There are minimum 5 people here in germany, 1 NBTHK Member and one other collector, my wife and two friends who will state that the sword was OK.

 

If u are sure it was damaged, then prove it. Otherwise keep quite and claim the forwarder.

 

The two below pictures show that it was repaired. Otherwise wich explanation do you have for the below pictures? Done by miracle, autocratical or what?

 

 

I will stop now to communication with you as long you reject your bashing and you will give an official apoligize for this!

 

Proof that you did not destroy it yourself. I can show at least the pictures that it was repaired.

Which evidence do you have?

 

Explain which interest I should have to sell you crap and to stay official here in the board beeing aware that my reputation will be destroyed?

 

and that for only ~ US $800,--?? It needs more money to do this! But as I said thats not my style at all!

 

Just for your record: I got a receipt from the customs and have to pay US$ 320,-- from the shipping of the previous owner. That reduce my "profit on this sword to US$ 500,--! I already gave it away as a present!

 

 

Your statements are a brashness!

 

Andreas

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The picture that Andreas posted of the sword "Before it was restored..."

 

... is EXACTLY the way that it looks now. This sword was never repaired as you claimed. It was NOT damaged in transit.

 

Uhhmmm,

 

what do you expect how a bended tip will look like else???

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I would like clarity on the saya issue. Charles says it had the end cut off, and the kissaki was exposed. Andreas says it is a standard saya 8cm longer than the blade. Hmm. Please clarify this among yourselves, and find out of something was tampered with?

If the blade was not fitted with the tsuka, and just had clingfilm on it and pressed into the saya, there is a good chance it shifted down and that is how the damage occurred.

This forum will not be used as a trial to see who was wrong and who was right. It's a bad situation. Work it out folks.

 

Brian

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