Jump to content

Old wakizashi...? My first mei translation


Recommended Posts

This is my first time getting a mei translated. Let me thank you in advance for the time you spend helping newbies like me... :)

 

The subject is a wakizashi in really poor polish, and what I think to be parry marks on the back of the blade. I bought it in shira-saya mountings from a dealer I trust for $450. I bought a modern chinese wakizashi, took it apart and discarded the blade, then adapted the fittings to my new (old) blade. I tied the handle myself with parachute cord--which does work, although you have to pull it very tight in the process. Here is a photo of my sword along with the now-empty shira-saya mountings.

Sutingu20with20shira-saya_zps1b99a692.jpg

 

Here is the mei in question. I apologize for not photographing it top to bottom; I wanted to get more detail in by going sideways. I also apologize for my cheap, cheap phone camera quality. If you can actually read this, I salute you.

Mei_zpsfdf3f10e.jpg

 

The blade was quite rusty when I bought it. I cleaned it up the best I could with uichiko powder and stopped the rust with choji oil. I can see elegant patches of choji-ba with good utsuri in the hamon, although my camera doesn't have a chance of capturing an example. Here is a photo of one larger choji-ba right about where the reflection of my head is...

Old20tamehagane_zpsc193af2e.jpg

 

The kissaki. One can find the yokote, but the really lousy polish makes it invisble, I think, in my best photo. It's very faint, but appropriate and present on both sides. One might be able to make out the boshi; note the bite out of the very tip. Gah.

Old20kissaki_zps6078cf97.jpg

 

The parry marks I mentioned. I realize they could be faked, but my gut tells me this blade was actually fought with.

Parry20marks_zps9c00e553.jpg

 

Again, thanks for your help with this. The photo I use as my avatar is the handle of this sword...I get to use it every day when I practice iai draws. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome....but as John noted, you need to sign your posts.

 

Out of respect for individuals time, it's always best to post the best pictures possible even if it takes a few days/weeks for you to get them.

 

Additionally, you may get some enjoyment trying to get at least a few of the characters yourself. Several sites can provide some assistance including the one below.

 

http://www.jssus.org/nkp/kanji_for_mei.html

 

I have to ask this question....what would possibly compel you to remove a possible authentic Nihonto from it's shirasaya and put in into a Chinese koshirae?

 

I would suggest you start with a few books to see if you truly enjoy the hobby of collecting Japanese artifacts and artwork and will appreciate them while contributing to their preservation. There are links here to dozens of great books. I would suggest you start with Facts and Fundamentals of Japanese Swords by Nakahara. Better yet, you will find plenty of articles and discussions on this board.

 

I wish you future enjoyment, but please remove the modern Chinese Koshirae. It is disrespectful.

 

Ben M.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, guys, I did use my name. It's in my signature (I assume that counts.) I am Jim Coomber, and I'm pleased to meet you all.

 

Benatthelake, while I respect your point of view on this matter, I would invite you to also consider mine. I am a lifelong swordsman (41 years yard work) whose aspiration was to have actual samurai equipment for my own use. The more I studied the traditions of bushido growing up, the more I learned to appreciate the presence of these antique works of art in our society. When I found the wakizashi, my first thought was that I could bring this old warrior into the twenty-first century.

 

When I said I was lucky enough to use this as my own iaijitsu sword, I sincerely meant it. Priveleged, even.

 

When re-mounting this sword, I was VERY careful to adapt the fittings TO the tang. No possibly nihonto blades were harmed in the creation of this weapon. ;) Also...this sword is in very poor polish; I would also not use a blade in very good condition for a purpose such as this. My gendai kai-gunto, for example, is in the condition in which I found it: untouched. As for the quality of the fittings...hey, I'm poor. I'm a cook who can't afford to send it to Japan for professional furniture. Actually, one should respect the fact that I painted the scabbard and tied the handle myself. There is a large measure of myself that has gone into my wakizashi, and I would think less of myself for having paid another to do it.

 

Unless you just have a problem with China. :D Not me; they made the fittings for my sword! I love China.

 

Back on topic. I do have better close-ups of the mei, but I was keeping myself within the five picture limit. Having read the forum rules. :| Here is the top half:

Mei20closeup201_zpsd85f1675.jpg

 

The bottom half. I really am sorry for the quality of these photos. My phone is so, so cheap.

Mei20closeup202_zpsff7b77b8.jpg

 

And here is a happy note. From one samurai cook in Oregon...

Happy20food_zps9b2c6cc4.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Jim,

Welcome to the board. Just to say...no-one is trying to bully or disrespect you, all are trying to guide you on the true path of nihonto collecting and preservation.

What is not said plainly, but has been hinted at (maybe a bit bluntly), is that generally:

We keep original fittings, or remount in original fittings or leave/store in original shirasaya (not Chinese stuff).

It is part of the ethic of Nihonto no shushuka no shikata (the way of the Nihonto collector).

 

As for your sword, it seems to have a nice wide hamon, and yes it is in pretty scratched polish, but looks good.

I can usually read mei without any trouble (occasional mistakes aside) but in this case the pics are just too unclear (and should be tip upwards).

Please take clearer pics and we'd be happy to help.

Lastly, I have seen a lot of swords and honestly, (from the poor pics), I think the wounds on the back ridge are recent and are hit marks, not cut marks.

I hope this helps and hope to hear more from you (with better pics).

Regards,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

............................................

The bottom half. I really am sorry for the quality of these photos. My phone is so, so cheap.

Mei20closeup202_zpsff7b77b8.jpg

I suspect that there might be one more kanji after the last kanji in the picture. :?:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Jim,as I a Jim too ;) I fixed the photo right side up for you, It looks like even with a better photo it going to be harder as there is some damage to the Mei also one of the reasons for not putting nihonto in Chinese stuff is the wood on some of them is an unknown and potentially can cause rust over time. Hope that helps :D

post-1682-14196902711833_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

備州 ナントカ 丸 光兼

 

At first blush this is what I am seeing. Was not able to find a smith with these kanji in the Meikan. More and better pics will be needed. Jim - preservation is the watchword even for folks who do Iai, and I do hope you're not doing any yardwork with it...

-t

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, Toryu-san! I would never use my wakizashi for yard work. Just appreciation, meditation and iai draws onlyin the privacy of a temperature-regulated home. ;) For yard work I have (yes, groan) chinese stuff that I can use on the bamboo some previous tenant planted in my back yard. Also shinai for use in sparring and bokken for use on the pell. The ONLY thing I would ever allow to touch my blade (pictured here) would be an enemy foolish enough to attack me while I'm holding a sword...and then I would perform chiburi, wipe clean before replacing to the scabbard, and as soon as possible I would clean with uichiko powder and re-oil with proper choji.

 

Hi Jim,as I a Jim too ;) I fixed the photo right side up for you, It looks like even with a better photo it going to be harder as there is some damage to the Mei also one of the reasons for not putting nihonto in Chinese stuff is the wood on some of them is an unknown and potentially can cause rust over time. Hope that helps :D

 

You rock! :) Heck, that looks clearer than the real thing almost. Guys, I will consider your advice about replacing the sword to its shira-saya. I know you mean well. It's just...well, nothing compares to the balance and feel of this sword in a draw. The chi (*ki* for us nihojin types) is like lightning and water. In the shira-saya it was in cold sleep--an artifact more than a living sword. Note: the old shira-saya is also in poor condition, and split to the point that it cannot be drawn at speed or used in a cut if necessary. I could repair with glue, but I know for sure that that is a no-no of great order. The shira-saya is carefully preserved.

 

I'm going out today to get a better camera. Better photos soon, I hope.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Jim,

Here is a quick and harmless repair for the shira-saya. Cut strips of paper about 1" wide and long enough to go 1.5 X around the saya. Wrap a piece of paper around about 6" or so below the mouth end of the saya. Tightly wrap 3/4" masking tape around the paper. Place the saya mouth down on the floor or a counter and slide the paper/tape down. Since the saya is largest at the mouth and tapers down towards the bottom, as you slide the paper/tape it will get tighter. Plan it right and you can get it very tight. Do this at 3 or 4 spots along the saya and the whole of it is securely together. Slide the paper/tape the other way to reverse; no residue of tape will be left behind.

Do this procedure after applying a bit of rice glue to the seam of the saya and you've done a permanent repair.

Grey

ps. Shira-saya is beautiful; the Chinese koshirae is the exact opposite to those of us used to the real thing. How about the Chinese rig when you're practicing and the shira-saya for the rest of the time?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

*(Cuts off Gunto's head.)*

 

*(Bows to the rest of the forum.)*

 

I really must apologize for my outburst, but it was my right. While honest disagreement with my choice is understandable, rudeness is not. My sword, as ugly as it is, is due an apology. He must have missed the part where I said I could not afford better fittings.*

 

Grey Doffin, rice glue you say? I would think that leaving the shira-saya as I collected it would be the correct answer. If that's a legal fix, I will consider it. Not sure if I'm going to switch the blade from one mounting to the next every day...but in another twenty years or so, when I retire from kenjutsu altogether, I will replace it to its storage mountings.

 

Yes, the shira-saya is beautiful. ;) That's why it has its own place on the sword stand.

 

*I did not use cheap chinese fittings. The sword blade I removed was hand-forged from high-carbon steel, affordable but not wall-hanger quality.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

*(your head rolled before You ever thorught of drawing Your "little" sword. My sword is longer!)*

 

You said"*I did not use cheap chinese fittings. The sword blade I removed was hand-forged from high-carbon steel, affordable but not wall-hanger quality."

 

Its still crap fittings , and useing parachute cord is way off.

 

Sorry, but thats just the way it is ,when You play with the big boys :badgrin:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jim,

You have to consider you are on a forum that studies Picasso and Rembrandt, and you are saying you have put your Van Gough into a Walmart picture frame.Yes, it's a nice picture frame you say....but you cannot expect the art connoisseurs to share your enthusiasm for this.

Franky, my opinion is a worn shirasaya before Chinese mounts any day. Heck..I prefer a bare blade to Chinese mounts. But as you say, it's your sword and your choice. But the corrolary is that we can post an opinion too.

Shirasaya should be repaired, and rice glue is the traditional repair.

Advice fwiw..

 

Brian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

*(Sigh)*

 

Please understand then that I am an art appreciator who cannot afford to send his Van Gogh overseas for a proper frame. It's wal-mart or thumb tacks on the wall for me.

 

(Note: I absolutely must have this sword mounted for iai practice...and shira-saya is balanced completely wrong for this. As a metaphor, one must consider that the art is also a weapon in this case--the best of its kind forged by man.)

 

However, I didn't actually post this topic to seek approval for my cheap and ugly chinese koshirae. I wish to establish who forged this and when, for the purpose of common human knowledge. It's clearly old; we all, art snobs and pop art collectors alike, have a shared interest in cataloging what is in the world. Thus...

 

I took my original photo of the mei and printed it out. Then I took the actual tang and compared what I could make out in person to what is in the photo. What is noted in marker is what I am sure is struck there by the smith as his mei. There could be more, but I cannot pull the detail from the background noise of rusty bumps and wiggles. Forgive my shouting, but I think I need to emphasize this: THE MARKS ARE ON THE PHOTOCOPY, NOT THE TANG ITSELF!!! ;) This time I split the signature in three sections, which overlap.

 

The top, where the blade begins:

1_zps0e832e70.jpg

 

The middle:

2_zps3478001b.jpg

 

The end of the tang. And yes, that is absolutely the last character. I see no evidence of more below that.

3_zps7b38c6cc.jpg

 

I noted two places of interest, A and B. A is a rough patch in the steel where I suspect a lot of detail has been lost. That's the smith's name, isn't it? Crap stick. Area B is a spot where the part of the kanji that curves off to the right disappears altogether, then comes back further up. Looking at it, it seemed apparent to me that some of the steel has been removed at some point in its history.

 

I do have one bit to say about the quality of Japanese koshirae versus chinese. I do have a modern Japanese commercial sword (i'm sure you will all recognize it) with furniture of very fine quality. Perhaps not up to your standards, but proof that I'm not a complete philistine...

 

Orchid20katana_zps3aa96cb0.jpg

 

It's too long for me to use in an iai draw, but it's cool anyway. I'll tell you guys this: if I can ever afford to, I'll have my sword properly fitted. In Japan.

 

*(Shoots Gunto)*

 

:D Just kidding. But you had to see that coming...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a Paul Chen orchid katana. *(Tosses it over his shoulder.)* Junk, I know, but a fine example of what modern Japanese koshirae look like. I'm assuming that custom made fittings like what we're talking about would be a degree higher in quality.

 

Gunto, I like your style. ;) I was using my 9mm parabellum, commercial model with four-digit serial number.

 

I've neen pouring over the kanji tables myself, but it's obvious to me that with the unclear signature I have, I could spend a years trying to match up my squiggles. It looked as if Moriyama-san and Toryu-san had an idea what they might be...but my computer won't display Kanji. :| Can't install them because I can't find the flipping windows XP disc...

 

Could some helpful human help this foolish rabbit out by telling him what those guys came up with in Romanji? I'm probably still stuck, but it will give me an idea where to start.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The paul chen / hanwei swords is still not Japanese quality ,far from.

They all got a far to long tsuka and wrong shape.

 

*(got a bayonet mounted , so its really long)* like my **** :D

 

Thanks for the duel :bowdown:

 

The lowest katana is modern handmade koshirae with fittings with sakura in real gold.

4EC8B504-72B6-4F24-B0B4-71C13C616B1A-7912-00000A7AD408DD66.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, the tsuka is way too long, and the more narrow shinogi-ji makes for a blade which is no longer robust, the way a samurai sword should be. Good for cutting tatami only. The whole thing overall is just an inch or so too long for an iai draw for me; I have to hyperextend my shoulder to clear the scabbard, which doesn't make for happy cutting at all.

 

I have two arisaka bayonets in my collection, and they are cool. But listen...you don't have to put one on your rifle to make yourself seem *cough* long enough. :) You're okay the way you are...

 

Ed: really? I did some research when I bought it that said they had them forged in Japan (unlike the cheaper models, like the practical plus,) but I can't find any word of it online now. I'm glad I paid less than half of retail for it, because I swear I'm looking at damascus steel with an acid-wash hamon and not the clay tempered hamon they advertise. Also, it was hand-forged all right, if that hand was a machine. :|

 

As long as we're stuck on the subject of improving my koshirae, :roll: how about a recommendation for what would be an economical source for fittings of the quality you suggest? I don't have to have gold sakura and stuff imported from Japan, do I?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

Howdy, all. :) Sorry to bump this topic, but I finally have the better pics that might help finally identify the maker of this sword. Right now, all I know is that someone named Maruko made this sword, and it was pretty there...

 

post-2804-0-56437900-1445978437_thumb.jpeg

 

From a different angle:

 

post-2804-0-79944700-1445978464_thumb.jpeg

 

Any ideas on the damaged area? All I see is chaos, but perhaps someone here can make sense of it.

 

And there is this; I have redone the sword myself in a more traditional Japanese fashion. It now looks like this:

 

post-2804-0-16949500-1445978619_thumb.jpeg

 

I am interested in getting ahold of antique koshirae that I can use, and the proper materials. For example, I'm still tying the handle with parachute cord, although using just the sleeve, because I don't have cotton ito. I would welcome advice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with Jean: Bizen Osafune-ju Kane (cut off)

 

備前長船住兼

 

It almost looks as though one mei was chiseled over another mei. There are a number of confusing marks or scratches near the mei that make the individual kanji take on characteristics of other kanji. Particularly the 住 looks like a completely different kanji. There is enough space under the 兼 to accomodate the second half of the name, but all I see are the three prominent parallel scratches. 

 

Edit: I looked again at this, and I can't completely reject the possibility of Chikakane, but of the many Chikakane smiths, most of them use a different "kane" (近包). I couldn't find any 近兼 smiths from Bizen. There was only one smith by this name in Hawley's (CHI61), and he is from Mutsu. 

post-34-0-80066000-1446011182_thumb.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to add, with this kind of mei, the name Kanemitsu comes to one's mind. THE Big One. Only one which mei syntax matches this one (Bishu Osafune JU...). Gimei. Steve (who never ceases to surprise me by his translating skills) is right when mentionning that the mei has probably been messed with.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gimei?!?

 

*(Takes wakizashi outside and trims the blackberries.)*

 

Just kidding. ;) Trying to follow along here; it seems someone altered the mei to attribute it to a famous Bizen smith, Kanemitsu? Well, thumbs down on that scoundrel. Here in 2015, I value the blade for its own sake, and just want to know something of the truth...

 

Many thanks, Jean and Steve. Without you guys, many of us would own 'anonymous old Japanese swords.' :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gimei isn't a train smash, lots of nice swords with fake names on them. I'm a sucker for a sword with nice hi. This is probably a Bizento, although the maker might be unknown.

If you get a chance, you should have a window polished.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one, unless your post is really relevant and adds to the topic..

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...