Jump to content

Childs Matchlock Pistol just acquired, help requested


Recommended Posts

In Justin's rifle, it is very easy to pass the finger between the trigger guard and the trigger

 

I don't know anything about Japanese matchlocks, but I know that in the field of arms, Japanese arms have a lethal elegance which is not found in this one.

 

At first glance, my opinion was it was made from bits and odds, but as I say I am not a specialist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is a Japanese matchlock pistol in a museum (Penn State) that claims to have an almost straight butt. But no picture I am afraid:

http://www.penn.museum/collections/object/318742

 

Sounds like mine.

 

It says"Japanese matchlock hand cannon or pistol. Small, wood, pistol with metal bore and matchlock firing mechanism. Almost straight-butt end does not curve much at all. The outside edges of the muzzle are carved out in an octagonal shape."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had this one. I sold it to a friend last week. I am not really into matchlocks. You could use it to compare to yours. I think it is a genuine matchlock, probably the inlay is a bit "flashy" so I thought maybe it was added to attract westerners. anyway at least I am sure it is "real" Japanese

post-102-14196888599615_thumb.jpg

post-102-14196888604217_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bill, first off a hand canon is a totally different animal from what you have in a million different ways.

 

Second, Mark's is real, the flash on it is to display wealth by the owner. My teppo has kamon engraved in it. My new rifle has a dragon carved in it.

 

You need to ask your self, who are you trying to convince this is real? You have 5 pages of people, some top experts, telling you it's not. So, you need to decide. I think you have sufficient information to decide. But trying to post information that tries to map your gun to authentic Japanese is not going to change a lot if any opinions. Even if the barrel is signed, the rest is not right, that does not make it what was advertised to you by the seller.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bill, in order not to be disappointed, do not get your hopes up regarding a signature under the barrel. Most Tangashima-stye matchlocks did not have a Mei under there, though many that have found their way to the West do. Just imagine that there is no Mei, and you will not be disappointed if there isn't.

 

All those brass rings look like protection against a barrel burst. Why are they necessary? Just decoration? Next time, do not buy a gun without clear photos of the inside of the pan, the state of the touch-hole, and shots of the BISEN breech screw in the end of the barrel. Without these, you are essentially buying sight unseen, like buying a car without getting the engine checked out first. Fingers crossed that everything inside is better than these outside pix!

 

(That's a lovely gun, Mark. Bet you were sad to part with it!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had this one. I sold it to a friend last week. I am not really into matchlocks. You could use it to compare to yours. I think it is a genuine matchlock, probably the inlay is a bit "flashy" so I thought maybe it was added to attract westerners.
I do not know were this notion came about, I see matchlocks that never left Japan that have decorations, just like swords, some samurai preferred a plain simple koshirae and some liked highly decorated koshirae.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eric, a lot (but certainly not all) of such decoration was added to existing teppo barrels at the beginning of Meiji by work-seeking kanagu artisans.

 

Our teppotai leader looks down on such decoration as distracting for the serious gunner. "Bah, Hamamono!" he says. (One theory is that they were more highly decorated in order to catch the eyes of and be sold to visiting ship-borne Westerners along the shores of Yokohama Bay, thus short for Yokohama but also having the meaning of Hama (=beach) mono (=things). Naturally there are still some here floating around Japan, and there are also collectors who like bright and cheerful guns. In fact there is a rather senior red-faced gentleman in the Prefectural Education Department here, head of one branch of the sword society, who sits on the committee for registering (or not) guns. He actively collects Sakai guns with lots of lovely flashy brasswork all over them, much to the secret disdain of others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the second set of photos, 8.jpg, there is a 5 petalled brass flower. What is it for? I see a lot more of them on Japanese matchlocks on the net.

 

Another way I can have grounds for returning the childs matchlock is to complain that the serpentine hammer does not mate up with the pan, I was assured it does. Anyone else think it looks to be malaligned?

 

Sincerely,

Bill Jensen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear Bill, just like with swords and in general Japanese art, there are indeed ideas and philosophies which have to do with depictions of about anything. There is no simple set answer. Japanese art is a study subject, and a massive one.

 

So many of the questions could be answered but you would still not have a grasp of the subject. You really need to start studying the subject, history, art, philosophy, to understand it better.

 

There are several books on these guns available, and the members on here would probably be glad to help you out with finding literature to study.

 

KM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The larger one of the left, the main coarse powder flask looks pretty rough and ready, but difficult to tell from those shots.

 

The smaller one on the right, the priming powder flask, looks to have a decent body to it, but without taking it in hand I can not be sure. Several of the part are missing from it and the string is completely wrong, though. You would need to rebuild it. Not impossible but it would take study, time, a delicate touch and patience.

 

They may have come together, ie they were from the same 'lot' in an auction, or someone later kept them in the same drawer, but there is absolutely nothing linking these three objects together.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bill, I hunt with BLACK powder muzzle loading guns and personally I wouldn't even think of firing this "childs" pistol without a complete inspection by someone who really knows what they are doing. The fact that you are asking what powder charge to use in a .28 cal. barrel tells me you don't know enough about these kinds of guns to be shooting it. First of all, to use anything but BLACK powder is asking for the barrel to burst with a good chance of shrapnel flying every which way, including your way. By the way, BLACK powder is not modern nitrocellulose based powder as used in modern firearms which is only black in color. You also, at least at this point, don't know what condition the barrel bore is in, whether it is rifled or smooth, and the list goes on. Don't injure your self or someone standing nearby by firing this gun unless you really know what you are doing and don't have to ask anyone for the correct answers. I'm being rather harsh with my reply, but I'd hate to see you or anyone get hurt. Good luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well said Ed.

 

I have often shot/tested black powder American handguns (S&W Russian/American, Remington deringer in .41) before hand shooting.

 

First time, I tied them to a tree, loaded, hammer cocked, a string tied to the trigger and me hiding behind a tree at 25 yards pulling the extremity of the string. No one nearer than half a mile but me.

 

The deringer failed (hinge broken) but the barrel was intact.

 

 

Never triffle with these old guns, shrapnell can mean death.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...