unique tanto with kogatana mei translation needed

[mercierarmory]

I was offered a very interesting tanto yesterday and while it is not currently in hand, I will have the opportunity to inspect it before purchase. The seller is hesitant to remove the tsuka from the tanto itself, but the kogatana has a signature on the blade I am getting nowhere with. The blade is made of brass though, and I have not handled enough of them to know if this is normal.

 

Any opinions would be certainly appreciated along with a translation.

 

Mike

[cabowen]

Interesting indeed...

[Peter Bleed]

Mike,

This was a very flashy sword made for a stylish guy - with deep pockets. It is very shin-shinto at least on the outside. Buy this bad boy so we can see the nakago.

Peter

[Gabriel L]

Speaking humbly, I am of the opposite opinion of Peter – it looks like it was ordered by someone with questionable taste and a very low budget. It is odd and interesting, but far from excellent in either workmanship or aesthetics. We at least agree that it is probably a late job.

 

On a side note, I instinctively suspect from the sugata that it was converted from a broken sword. This would be hard to prove though (easy to disprove if the nakago is suriage or ubu).

[ROKUJURO]

Mike,

 

while this seems indeed to be quite a unique piece, it is probably not a TANTO but a short WAKIZASHI. Many parts of it give the impression of an array of strange and unusual parts and pieces, put together by someone who had never seen an original Japanese mounting. Nevertheless a look at the NAKAGO may reveal 'a good heart' of this weapon. I wish you luck!

[mercierarmory]

Thank you all for your opinions. It's not a bad price, but more than I want to spend around Christmas. I am thinking like you are Peter and want to get a closer look and make the purchase. Who knows it might be something really good underneath.

 

What are the thoughts about the brass kogatana and the signature? Why would a brass blade be signed in the first place?

 

Pictures can be deceiving but I am wondering about the tsuba view in picture 4. I can't tell if I see individual layers like wood grain or if it is just a design and not actually layered.

 

Mike

[Grey Doffin]

My guess is Hama-mono: something put together to sell to departing western tourists, late 19th or early 20th century, at the port of Yokohama (thus the name). It may be a broken blade or something made at the same time to go with the mounts. The sori isn't right for what it wants you to believe it is; too strong. But it might appeal to what westerners of the time thought a Japanese sword was supposed to look like. Retempered blade is another possible explanation for the strong sori.

But this is just a guess; I'm often wrong.

Grey

[Robert Mormile]

A few armchair observations…

*I am not a tosogu specialist.

 

To me it seems be a very unusual combination of components. I see both higher quality kodogu and otherwise. The habaki and iron namban fuchi-kashira as well as the silver capping on the saya seem to be higher quality but, to me I believe there was a restoration when the menuki and kozuka were added. Perhaps the original silver menuki and the kozuka were lost and replaced with the current versions.

 

We can see the difference in color of the two same, how poorly the menuki fit on the tsuka and the glue residue. Very slapdash.

 

Although we don’t have measurements, the proportions of the blade seem rather slender and I wonder if this was a child’s sword that had been re-outfitted. Either that or the saya is exceedingly wide. Does that tiny habaki really fit snuggly into that wide saya or was this thing just put together?

 

Robert

[Peter Bleed]

Gabriel said

"Speaking humbly, I am of the opposite opinion of Peter – it looks like it was

ordered by someone with questionable taste and a very low budget.'

Sorry, Gabriel, you misunderstood me. I did NOT say it was "good" or "of high quality." I said it was flashy and probably costly to the guy who bought it. I think this sword was BLING BLNG, not art. It was an ornament that would look good on a "man about town. I think it is rather well crafted, but it is an ornament. It would not fit with formal wear. It would be out of place in a tea house. But I bet it would fit right in in Yoshiwara. Note too that it is a short. I doubt that this could be described as a "samurai sword." I do not think this makes it a "bad sword." It is simply a reflection of what was going on with swords at the end of the Edo period.

It is not to Gariel's taste, and I can't blame him. I do not see this as "Yokohama docks" stuff of the Meiji era. But I have no idea what to make of the little brass knife. Letter opener?

An interesting challenge, Mike. Let us know if there is a signature.

Peter

[mercierarmory]

Well I can't say I'm terribly happy. I don't know what's going on with the tsuba but the blade is unsigned. Like Peter said, I don't know what to make of the brass knife either. Any ideas on what it says?

 

Mike

[IanB]

All, There are points about this sword that deserve quite a lot of consideration. Starting with the saya, notice how wide the pocket for the kogatana is. Clearly it has been made to take a very wide kogatana, but I doubt it is the present one with its same covered kozuka and what looks like iron fuchi / gashira. I suspect the present kozuka is someone's latter attempt not knowing what the original was like. Since the kojiri is lacquered in situ, we can deduce that it, and the narrow silver bands were part of the original design concept. Notice also that the gap in the rim of the tsuba has been made to fit an extra wide kogatana, as has the angled cut-away of the fuchi. Again this suggests these elements were specifically made for the sword and whatever strange kogatana it originally had. The brass blade was probably made at the same time as the odd kozuka. The fuchi / gashira as has been noted are very namban and interesting but again not that unusual. However, look and again note that the novel way the kashira is pinned through the tsuka. Now we come to the menuki. They do look too large for the hilt and may well have been applied later. Firstly they look to be by the same hand and look to be of Japanese workmanship. The tachi on the ura side is not too strange but I cannot recall seeing one with a dragon kashira - ho-o birds yes. What interests me is the one on the omote side. Who has ever seen a Japanese armour mounted in this way in Japan? What seems to be depicted is an armour displayed on a European stand. In fact it looks almost exactly the same as the armours as they were displayed in the Real Armeria in Spain in the 19th century, photographs of which survive despite the fire which all but destroyed the armours in the 1840's. In other words it seems to be depicting an armour in a Western collection. Finally look at the tsuba, again fairly conventional except that it is covered in foil that looks to have been riveted in place through the seppa dai. Again rather odd.

All in all a very unusual koshirae that raises interesting questions about the sources of its design.

Ian Bottomley

[cabowen]

It is indeed interesting and maybe even unique but the whole is of rather low quality in my opinion and something that appears put together for a dock side trip.

[mercierarmory]

Ian, I really appreciate your insight. Ignoring all the fittings, what are the thoughts on the blade? Perhaps late Edo as well?

[John A Stuart]

Back to what the original post was, I can't make it out really. 南?剛鍮制戎藥元琿 It seems to be some kind of protective spell or giving confidence thing, mentioning that it is strong southern brass, a jewel of the early warrior system medicine. Help needed!! John

[ROKUJURO]

Mike,

 

to make a statement concerning the blade we have to see it as a whole and in detail/close-up. Take the HABAKI off und make some well focussed photos, that would help. Is there a HAMON to be seen? Try to catch that as well, and of course the BOSHI. Dimensions are important.

 

Good luck!

[mercierarmory]

Here are a couple views of the blade. Seeing that I don't have it in hand and have never handled it in person (I'm still on the fence about buying it) asking him to take more pictures minus habaki but be hard. He is not terribly tech savvy and the pictures I have already have been tough to get.

 

Mike

[John A Stuart]

What is that line in the second pic in the monouchi area? John

[mercierarmory]

I was wondering the same thing. I have an email out to the owner asking, but I don't have an answer yet.

[mercierarmory]

I suppose it is a scratch or scuff after all. He said:

 

This stands out on pictures,but in real time looking at this line it is very superficial or surface level only so to speak. It is not a hairline crack or flaw.

[Peter Bleed]

Friends,

Having said too much of too little value already, I probably should keep quiet. But I find this sword interesting and I am truly and deeply enjoying the discussion.

I had been seeing this sword as a late development of the Namban style. A very urbane sword that seems related to so-called toppei koshirae. They have that flashy, streamlined look.

I still think that the menuki are an interesting design and not formulaic hack work, altho I have to agree that the treatment on the tachi is pretty light. I also could not imagine what kind of a pedestal the armor was on so Ian's observation was very interesting, indeed.

Peter

[kusunokimasahige]

The black line in the second image corresponds with the same "forging "flaw" as I have on my katana :

 

 

And yes I know, it needs a polish.

 

KM

[mercierarmory]

The owner and I have come to an agreement and I will have it in hand next weekend.

 

Mike

[mercierarmory]

I picked up the tanto yesterday. There are some really nice things on it, and some not as impressive. The blade is interesting. It is tanto in length, but the kasane and mihaba is smaller that I would have expected and with the length it is proportional to a miniturized wakazashi. That is just my observation. There is a straight hamon and in although unsigned, there is a faint symbol or something on it. If you look in the center of the picture posted it looks like a star pattern with dots or something. I am not sure of this.

 

I have other photos I will post a little later.

 

Still any thoughts at all on the signature on the kogatana? I am really curious about that.

 

Mike

[mercierarmory]

Another view of the kogatana signature

[Brian]

With the scale you have described, I am almost certain that it is a boy's/child's sword. It would fit the pattern, although the fittings may have been added later. They are quite collectible in their own right. With that shape and being shinogi zukuri...the best case is that it is a boy's sword, as the style and shape would just be wrong for any other type of sword.

Maybe the tsuka and smaller tanto were added later. Can you take an overall pic of the bare blade next to something for scale such as a matchbox or lighter or pen?

 

Brian

[mercierarmory]

Its not the greatest picture but I wanted to get one taken before I head out the door for work.

 

Mike

[mercierarmory]

A better shot taken today.

[Brian]

I think almost definitely a child's sword. (or Boy's Day sword)

Nice.

 

Brian

[mercierarmory]

So far, all I can figure out with the kogatana is the first two kanji 南蛮 naban.

 

Mike

[John A Stuart]

南蛮剛鍮制戎 ? 元理

Nam ban gou chu sei juu ? gan ri John