Koa Isshin Mantetsu question

[obiwanknabbe]

Hi everyone. I'm Kurt and I am new to the board.

 

My questions, for any of you who may know, pertain to a Koa Isshin Mantetsu blade that I recently came into my possession ( found it in an antique shop and got it for $100 bucks :D ). It is dated Spring 1940 and signed Koa Isshen Mantetsu Saku Kore, the numbers along the mune are 10, 3, 5, 6. The thing that has me slightly intrigued is that every other one of these swords i have seen has a single Mekugi-ana. The blade i have has two as does the tuska, which is also steel reinforced along the mune side. Have any of you seen this before? Was this a special order option? It seems that it would allow for more aggressive cutting.

 

Secondary, have attitudes started to shift in the Nihonto community regarding these blades? What do you think the investment potential of these class of swords will be over the long term?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Kurt

[brannow]

Hi Kurt,

 

Welcome to the forum! At $100 your investment is safe! It was possibly remounted, which could explain the second hole.

Can you take some pics out side in the natural light and post them.

[Stephen]

is it a later war mount, most of those have two holes...is the second one towards the end of the tang?

[obiwanknabbe]

Hey folks,

Thanks for the quick replies. I will try to post up some pics as soon as I can.

 

As for the war period of the mounts, its hard to say. They were pretty much destroyed when i got the sword, no Ito, no tassel, and the Koshire were pretty banged up. Fortunately, i have a secondary set of them from an older blade that are in perfect condition and fit well. The saya that it came with was steel with one Ashi and the corresponding decorative fittings. The second hole on the blade is not located all the way at the bottom of the Nagako. It is about 3.5 inches from the bottom, right above the kanji for Saku kore. Upon further inspection, there are 2 metal reinforcing fittings on the tsuka, one on the top, on one the bottom.

 

I am sure that at $100.00, there is no way i could have gone wrong as I have seen them selling anywhere between 700 and 2500 depending on condition. That being said, what i was trying to get at was what you folks think the future potential of this class of sword looks like. It seems that they float in limbo somewhere between gunto and nihonto at present but with some people leaning towards classifying them as the latter.

 

Thanks again,

Kurt

[Jiro49]

Hello, they are definitely not nihonto. That said they make great cutters (tameshigiri) and have a pretty big following.

 

For 100.00 yes you're in the black!

 

Regards,

[SwordGuyJoe]

They aren't nihonto/gendaito and never will be. They are a high quality showato and as that market fluctuates as will Mantetsuto.

[lonely panet]

Hi Kurt, there a interesting item if your interested in items from imperial Japan.

theres alot of interest in the USA for neat versions of mantetsu gunto and they can go for a respeactable price too, taking into account that in the fuller and gregory books, they are rated as superior machine made blades.

 

they were made in china in the matetsu factory, so they are not as highly rate as the showato but, earler blades were highly regarded though.

 

Iv handled many of these blades and there interesting to look at, but sadly all the items iv handled didnt thrill me for the price tag, but at 100 dollers you cant go wrong, great buy.

 

look at the fittings, there are some fittings also made in the factory, they appear to be lower quality compared to the normal shin gunto fittings, but they are a nice to look at and are har to find examples.

 

regards Hamish

[Stephen]

Highly regarded in the cutting area of Martial arts. they do have great looking mei tho, wonder who did it as you can see mei cut that well on Nihonto/Gendaito blades

[obiwanknabbe]

I was looking over an old post and realized that I never uploaded the pics.. so mea culpa and here are those shots.. Id still be interested in what people thought about the steel strapping on the tsuka under the ito and the 2nd mekugi. 

 

Kurt. k

[Shamsy]

Hi Kurt, I recall a thread not too far in the past where steel side plates were inserted under the same strips on a tsuka. I cannot find it though, nor remember the verdict. Also, I cannot remember whether it was a Type 98 or Type 0 in question. I'm pretty sure Bruce commented on it. Perhaps his memory is better than mine.

[IJASWORDS]

Kurt, I have a few examples of Type 98's that have metal (presumably steel) strips under the SAME on the TSUKA. The TSUKA is in good condition so it doesn't look like a repair, but more likely to reinforce or strengthen the TSUKA for war time "action".

[Dave R]

 I have a wrecked tsuka with the steel reinforces. I don't think it is all that rare in fact....

[Bruce Pennington]

Hi Kurt, I recall a thread not too far in the past where steel side plates were inserted under the same strips on a tsuka. I cannot find it though, nor remember the verdict. Also, I cannot remember whether it was a Type 98 or Type 0 in question. I'm pretty sure Bruce commented on it. Perhaps his memory is better than mine.

Steve,

The discussion you're thinking of was about a Rinji model because of the mekugi screw.

 

This is new to me, too! But I've never owned one with the tsuka unwrapped, so I've never run into it. Very interesting!

[Shamsy]

Steve,

The discussion you're thinking of was about a Rinji model because of the mekugi screw.

 

This is new to me, too! But I've never owned one with the tsuka unwrapped, so I've never run into it. Very interesting!

My memory is pretty bad, thought you might have kicked off last topic Bruce. Was it one you started Dave? Because I'm fairly certain you showed us that picture... Could be wrong though.

 

Anyway, doesn't really matter because I don't recall anything more to the conversation than Neil and Dave covered here (i.e. uncommon but not rare and probably to strengthen tsuka).

[PNSSHOGUN]

I wonder if the practice originated in Manchuria, where sword use was more prevalent, or started later?

[Dave R]

 I have come across a reference to it starting as a retrofit on old swords refurbished for the IJA. This being due to ageing tsuka coming apart during practice, as is mentioned here.

 

 

 

[lonely panet]

very cool bit of information Dave, that will help a lot