Ken-Hawaii Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 Read your info a tad more closely, Jean. Vienna Chalk says very clearly that it is used AFTER the metal is polished. I assume that means it's used to remove any surface "stuff" without actually affecting the metal's surface. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanjuro Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 On the NMB we have discussed this topic repeatedly and never really arrived at a concensus. Those who cling to the use of uchiko will continue to use it and rationalise their use of it despite advice to the contrary. In addition, we continue to define what we mean by uchiko and what we understand to be choji oil, all to no avail. Fact: uchiko is finely ground uchigumori slurry, usually provided by a togishi, and is abrasive. Wiener Kalk is not uchiko, but is used as a milder version of it to limit the amount of damage done during cleaning. Fact: Choji oil can be made of camelia oil or paraffin oil with a few drops of clove oil added. it does not damage the blade and is a proctective agent against rust. I take it we basically agree on this................ Now, why the hell do we need to use an abrasive on a blade just to soak up old oil? Why are we even discussing the fact that choji oil will eventually polymerise and need removal. The polymerisation takes years, and if we as preservers and collectors leave the cleaning of our blades long enough for the polymerisation of the choji oil to take place, then we should be labelled as 'desecrators by neglect'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex A Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Well concluded Keith. Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Fox Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Hi again Keith Can I clarify a point before I assume the label as a 'desecrators by neglect'.which I assume you picked up from my post.I am now almost resolved to oil my blades, and leave them in that condition, no rust, no scratching, got to be the best outcome. Chogi oil as a long term protective is a no no. Nor is any of the other vegetable, flower or animal derivatives, I am well aware of that, and it was remiss of me not to state so at the time.It is stated here , that oils recommended for firearms is a good bet, and so they are, but only if they meet strict criteria as non evaporators. In the gun trade I oft have firearms (shotguns in paticular) brought in that have ceased to function. The works are gummed up, due to the so called ‘gun oil’ evaporating, and leaving the adhesive carrier behind as a glue. I use, Electrolube LWP a military firearms oil of high spec, its credentials are faultless, being available on Nato stock 9150-99-414-6509. I service Browning shotguns for customers every 4 years, and without exception the internals are immaculate, with this oil still in place and protecting. I don’t apologize for going on a little, as I would like to be regarded as a ‘newbee’ not a ‘numpty’. Denis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanjuro Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Hi Denis. Actually, I wasnt picking up on anything specifically said when I made the 'desecrators by neglect' reference. It was after all, couched in generally inclusive 'we' terms and pointed to the continued use of uchiko when it is totally unnecessary as a regular maintenance practice. It pointed also to maintenance so infrequently carried out, if at all, that allowed choji oil to polimerise. All comments made are in the spirit of discussion. A discussion we seem to be continually having, and one that gets ressurected on a regular basis it seems, even though there are ample references to uchiko and choji oil available in the FAQ section and identical topics to this one available in the search facility of this board. The arguments both for and against uchiko have not changed and the composition of choji oil and all its alternatives are discussed exhaustively. So, why do we keep revisiting this tired topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 You are right Keth, so I lock it, we are using banwidth for nothing. Using the search button will answer any question on the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Good, well applied uchiko can improve a slightly out of polish sword or allow you to see if a hamon is present. But it should be used sparingly in line with the advice given in this thread. I don't use alchohol myself...I prefer the whole ritual of uchiko cleaning occasionally. But it must be good quality, and my swords are not in full polish. Given the fact that you would do this a few times a year, I am not one that believes you will abrade a sword too much if done properly. With 800 year old swords....many of those have been cleaned with uchiko for many hundreds of those..and they survived fine. However, one big warning I do have with uchiko is to make sure you have no pits, openings or fukure. Those who don't know how to use uchiko will end up with "hike" marks leading out of the pits that are unsightly. If you have doubts...use alchohol. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Flynn Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 I have only recently switched to using alcohol, after a demonstration in Japan by Dr Gordon Robson. So now form my, Polished to very Clean blades, Alcohol. For my blades with stains etc. Uchiko. Also I now only use Camellia oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Fox Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Hi Keith Thanks for your comments, longer term members (you from 2009 ) may see this as a frequently visited topic, but for newer members this was a new live debate. If you maintain that there is ‘nothing’ raised in this latest debate, and I mean nothing, that has not been fully exercised previously. Then I agree with you, you have revisited a tired topic. You rightly state there is the FAQ’s, and the search facilities on the board, this is where I shall seek any answers in future. Brian I can certainly live with that! Cheers Denis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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