Tsuba article Naotane, Naokatsu, students

[Ron STL]

Recently, I mentioned my interest in tsuba made by Jirotaro Naokatsu. Issue 656 of Token Bijutsu ran an article on these guys but I'm unsure if the article has ever been translated into English. NBTHK-American branch translated an article on menuki from that issue, but not the tsuba article. Does anyone know if a translation exists for that article? Tsuba by these shinshin-to swordsmiths and their students are quite interesting. Many of their works are copying Nobuiye style of work as we know, but they also ventured elsewhere with their creativity.

 

I've attached the title to that article in #656.

 

Ron STL

[myochin]

E-mail me Ron (paulgill@softek.fr)

 

Paul.

[christianmalterre]

Dear Ron,

 

so,obviously you do know more about Nobuie than me here?

Your´s statement however sounds interesting indeed!-Quote: "Many of their works are copying Nobuiye style of work as we know"

 

Question-honestly!...Which one ever???

 

I just have one simple question....Where? Who? Why?(Sorry!-I but never ever have seen or remarked an(y) slightest similarity despite an "maybe" essaye to (something)(maybe?...if you like-or not?)...?to call it such...)

(Quoted?)

 

Wrong here?-Maybe?(Maybe not?)

Courious indeed...

 

Christian

[Ron STL]

Well Christian, let's see what I can say about this claim I made that "Many of their works are copying Nobuiye style of work as we know..." Maybe I should have said, "A number of their works were in Nobuiie-revival style," to be less specific. For the most part, the ones I refer to as in Nobuiye style would be the ones that carry tortoise shell kebori on them, that and the water wheel (Genji wheel), etc.

 

Digging into my references I did find a mention in Nihonto Koza Vol 6, Kodogu part 1, p.72, that "Naotane made this (the illustrated tsuba), studying Nobuiye. Tsuba, An Aesthetic Study by Torigoye/Haynes also mentions on page 72 that these late Edo tsuba smiths made them "...in the style of Nobuiye." I also seem to recall that the links to available Naokatsu tsuba at dealers sited (under the Wanted catagory of the NMB also describe their tsuba as Nobuiye revival style. Interestingly, the article I was asking about was translated (Thanks Paul) and the mention of copying Nobuiye tsuba is mentioned numerous places. But I must admit that a lot of my thinking along these lines goes back 30-40 years from "word of mouth" background. Seeing tortoise shell kebori incorporated onto the surface of some Naokatsu tsuba and also on the rim surface at times, just makes me call it Nobuiye revival style. All I know is that many of these late Edo tsuba can be exciting to fondle. At my age, that's about all I can fondle. :lol:

[Ron STL]

Just a couple photos showing tsuba by Jirotaro Naokatsu that display (what I would call) copying Nobuiye style of work. Just FYI

Ron STL

[Soshin]

Hi Everyone,

 

Here is a good example of this schools work with NBTHK Tokubetsu Kicho papers: http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/tsuba27.html. The example is in a late Edo Period Nobuie style and is a signed work of Naoaki a student of Naokatsu.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Toryu2020]

So Ron or Paul,

Where or when was the article translated? Anyone willing to share?

 

-t

[Ford Hallam]

What is also interesting to note is that at the time swordsmiths were making these Nobuie inspired pieces the first publication of rubbing of the originals came out. Prior to this the genuine works seem to have been relatively unknown so I think it fair to suggest the book was the catalyst for this type of work.

 

Worth remembering, also, that it was Suishinshi Masahide who was largely responsible for the attempt to revive older methods of sword making and one can easily see this interest in Nobuie tsuba at the time to be a part of this 'looking back to past glories' so to speak.

[Soshin]

Hi Ford,

 

That is a really good point. I think the publication of this book: http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/books/c125-nobuiye-tsuba-shu-akiyama-kyusaku had a really big impact in the making of many late Edo Period Nobuie style tsuba by swordsmiths. The specific book I linked to is the 1926 edition by Akiyama Kyusaku which was taken directly from the original work Nobuiye Tsuba Shu by Nakamura Kakudaiyu. This early book of Nobuie tsuba rubbings was published is the 1850s and it was a first of its kind. Before that the Nobuie designs were not know to the general Japanese public.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Ron STL]

Looking at the Naokatsu here today, I realized that one of these tsuba carries an unusual form for "katsu" different than the usual form we see. (I don't recall asking about this before, but if so, my apologies.) The usual form for "katsu" shows on the right radical what I call the kanji for "to" (sword) kanji, unlike what is on this tsuba. Also, the NTHK origami for this tsuba while identifying it as by Jirotaro Naokatsu, also has an additional character writtin on it. Does this possibly explain this variation in writing "katsu?" It's interesting how one can miss these kind of details!

 

Ron STL

[Toryu2020]

Ron -

your paper says "Tsuba" Jiro Taro Naokatsu and they use the same form of katsu...

-t

[Ford Hallam]

Hi David,

 

yes, that's the book; Nobuiye Tsuba Shu by Nakamura Kakudaiyu. Thanks for adding those details, I was just being lazy and not bothering to look though my notes

 

For swordsmiths and tsuba-ko seeing these rubbings of previously unknown tsuba and from nearly 250 years earlier must have seemed quite magical, a time capsule suddenly unearthed.

[cabowen]

Ron -

your paper says "Tsuba" Jiro Taro Naokatsu and they use the same form of katsu...

-t

 

 

The tsuba Ron posted seems to be signed with:

 

滕

 

　Which has mizu at the bottom 水

 

While the paper has the kanji 勝

 

Which has chikara at the bottom 力

 

????

[Pete Klein]

I am unaware of any book published by Nakamura. He compiled a set of rubbings which were later published in 1926 by Kawaguchi Wataru and Akiyama Kyûsaku. These are from the 1981 Nobuie Tsuba book, 'Nobuie Tsuba', by Iida Kazuo:

 

The „Nakamura Kakudayû-tanshû“ and Nakamura Kakudayû

 

Kokubo Ken´ichi (小窪健一)

 

When it comes to oshigata, particularly the collection of rubbings of Nobuie-tsuba done by the tsuba lover Nakamura Kakudayû during the bakumatsu period, his collection is famous and outstanding. It contains 142 stone rubbings of Nobuie-tsuba – 19 of them in my collection – which are an important reference for the study of this artist.

80 of the mentioned oshigata were once bought by another tsuba connoisseur, Miyazaki Michisaburô (宮崎道三郎), in the antiquarian bookshop „Rinrôkaku“ (琳琅閣) in Ikenohata (池之端), within Tôkyô´s Shitaya district (下谷). With the 62 oshigata Akiyama Kyûsaku got from Imamura Chôga (今村長賀), the publishing company „Nanjin-sha“ with Kawaguchi Wataru published the whole oshigata collection as „Nakamura Kakudayû Nobuie-tanshû“ in 1926, together with an explanatory comment by Akiyama.

 

Also, by Wakayama Homatsu:

 

We do not know how or how much Nobuie´s works were in fashion during their lifetime, but not much attention was payed to Nobuie-tsuba from the early to the middle Edo period, that means from the 16th to the 17th century. Only Kikumoto Yoshiyasu (菊本喜保) mentions Nobuie as a tankô (鐔工), a tsuba craftsman, in his work „Manpô-zensho“ (萬寶全書) which was published in the seventh year of Genroku (1694). The „Tôban-zufu“ (刀盤図譜),*19 compiled by Matsumiya Kanzan (松宮観山, 1686-1780), presents pictures of Nobuie-tsuba, and Inaba Michitatsu´s (稲葉通龍) „Sôken-kishô“ (装剣奇賞) which was published in the first year of Tenmei (天明, 1781) shows two pictures of Nobuie-tsuba. But it was not until Nakamura Kakudayû´s collection of oshigata, which he gathered during the Tenpô period (天保, 1830-1844), was published as the „Nakamura Kakudayû Nobuie-tanshû“, which caused a Nobuie boom in the Shôwa period, accompanied by great strides in the research as well as the financial assessment of this artist.

[Soshin]

Hi Pete K.,

 

Thanks for the additional details and the clarification the rubbing of Nobuie tsuba were complied and reproduced in the Bakumatsu Era by Nakamura. To say they were published by him isn't compeletely accurate statement on my last post.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[christianmalterre]

Thank you Pete

it´s certainly remarkable so to read:"not much attention was payed to Nobuie-tsuba from the early to the middle Edo period" and " it was not until Nakamura Kakudayû´s collection of oshigata, which he gathered during the Tenpô period (天保, 1830-1844), was published as the „Nakamura Kakudayû Nobuie-tanshû“, which caused a Nobuie boom in the Shôwa period".....

 

Indeed,an call!...-LOL!

 

Either way

....

 

Certainly fact but is-and here we all do hopefully agree together(?)-that all those exemplaires posted,and spoken,dating from latter times-do not slighly reach in any of the real masterpieces here-nor in iron,nor in tsuchime,nor in expression or taste equally...

Those are typical Shin-Shinto works with "no depth" in fact...

(mine personal statement!)(like it or not...sorry-i but really can not find anything interesting in such Revivals...

equally they do obviously lack...)

 

Christian

[christianmalterre]

Thank you Pete,

it´s certainly remarkable so to read:"not much attention was payed to Nobuie-tsuba from the early to the middle Edo period" and " it was not until Nakamura Kakudayû´s collection of oshigata, which he gathered during the Tenpô period (天保, 1830-1844), was published as the „Nakamura Kakudayû Nobuie-tanshû“, which caused a Nobuie boom in the Shôwa period".....

 

Indeed,an call!...-LOL!

 

Either way

....

 

Certainly fact but is-and here we all do hopefully agree together(?)-that all those exemplaires posted,and spoken,dating from latter times-do not slighly reach in any of the real masterpieces here-nor in iron,nor in tsuchime,nor in expression or taste equally...

Those are typical Shin-Shinto works with "no depth" in fact...

(mine personal statement!)(like it or not...sorry-i but really can not find anything interesting in such Revivals...

equally they do obviously lack deepness...)

 

Christian

[Ron STL]

The tsuba Ron posted seems to be signed with: 滕 Which has mizu at the bottom 水 While the paper has the kanji 勝

Which has chikara at the bottom 力

 

Would both forms still be read as KATSU? I checked in Haynes and didn't see any comments about Naokatsu sometimes using this form of KATSU in him mei. I would find it interesting to find another example like this. Combing my references, no examples were found.

 

Ron STL

[cabowen]

I am tempted to think that this is not by Naokatsu, but Naoto. The Nao kanji is cut differently than the two examples posted of Naokatsu's work as well. I don't believe this kanji is read as katsu....

[Toryu2020]

And so it is!

 

And now I see what Ron was talking about. Looking at the article and some other references I did not find this variation used, although there was some in the tsuki hen which is what I thought we were after.

-t

[raiden]

http://www.tsuruginoya.com/mn1_3/b00047.html

[raiden]

I believe a student, you guys figure it out.

[raiden]

I am inclined to either agree that the kanji doesn't say Katsu OR it is possibly a signature that needs more study in regards to authenticity of being the mei of Jiro Taro Naokatsu. If one looks at the 2 solid examples that Ron put up as nobuiye examples, the niji mei piece doesn't match at all, nor does it match any sword mei either, so different guy or suspect mei in my opinion.

[Ron STL]

Thanks Mike, everyone, interesting puzzle here. Apparently the shinsa team (NTHK 1985) felt it was Jirotaro Naokatsu but one would think the use of the different form for "katsu" would have been noted somewhere on the paper. It is not from what I can see. Maybe something will turn up to explain this somewhere down the road.

 

Ron STL

[raiden]

Ron,

Can you post a pic of that tsuba, not so large size?

[raiden]

It would help to se the real thing than what shows up in the paper

[cabowen]

Thanks Mike, everyone, interesting puzzle here. Apparently the shinsa team (NTHK 1985) felt it was Jirotaro Naokatsu but one would think the use of the different form for "katsu" would have been noted somewhere on the paper. It is not from what I can see. Maybe something will turn up to explain this somewhere down the road.

 

Ron STL

 

I think it is very likely the shinsa team missed this as well (not surprising given the large number of items that pass through in a short period of time) and it is incorrectly recorded as Naokatsu.

[raiden]

I say just send it through the NBTHK shinsa and see what happens, in Japan they have many more resources to use.