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Which blade(s) are showa-to? ANSWERS HERE NOW


cabowen

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"re-confirmation...

 

Showa-to is meaning "Mono steel and oil quinched blade".

 

correct ???"

 

Yes!

 

:

 

wait a minute... showa-to are monosteel AND oil quenched? just to be clear, couldn't some showa-to be not quenched at all, or folded steel but not tamahagane (mantetsu, etc.), or even monosteel but water quenched (assuming that was even done)? my guesses were based simply on what i thought might not be tamahagane AND water quenched (i.e. "traditionally made").

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wait a minute... just to be clear, showa-to are only blades that are monosteel AND oil-quenched? can't some showa-to be not quenched at all, or folded steel but not tamahagane (e.g. mantetsu, etc.), or even monosteel but water quenched (assuming that was even done)? my guesses were based simply on what i thought might not be tamahagane AND water-quenched (i.e. "traditionally-made")

 

Showa-to is a rather loosely used term for any non-traditionally made blade made during WWII. Usually they are made of western steel and oil quenched. There aren't any water quenched, western steel blades, and few if any oil quenched tamahagane blade. Some western steel blades were partially forged, but these are rather rare, as are other varieties, like the Mantetsu, etc.

 

For this, identify anything you think is non-traditional....

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This is IMHO a very good excersice provided by Chris to calibrate our conclusion drawn

on the basis of some pictures provided on the net, regardless of the showato, star stamp,

traditional nihonto discussion going on.

 

I think that 90% of all the blade and fittings discussions going round here on the NMB start

with - let´s say - unprofitable pictures. But that is the only chance we have here anyway, so

let´s face it.

 

At a real sword meeting and if you are in that hobby for a certain amount of time, a rotation

of some degrees under a good light and having the sword in hand are enough to see if a sword is

traditionally made or not.

 

So let us use this thread to see what conclusions we draw from seeing only

"the tip of the iceberg". From that point of view I say all are showato and maybe 8 gendaito.

 

I´m looking forward to the solution. :D

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Well done Chris,what a treat the last week or so has been for us gendaitophiles,the 'Kiyokatsu' thread was excellent and many thanks to George too for his input,some great posts based on well researched and documented facts and now you can treat yourself to a bit of a chuckle while we would be sword fanciers make a right pig's ear out of your little test!

I have no doubts that I'll be waaaaaay out but my call is that all are Showa-to except 1,3,6.

No.1 looks a bit like some Akihide school hamon that I've seen (although there look to be 'hard' spots at the peaks...)

No.3 looks to have recent polish and visible grain (polisher wouldn't polish Showa-to would he?OR WOULD HE?)

No.6 looks traditionally made.

I rest my case.....I think....

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Who sir?Me sir?

It's the look of the steel and activities,I had a Showato by Nagamura Kanekiyo a couple of years ago that showed similar characteristics as seen in some of the blades you've shown,I think overall it's just the feeling you have after owning bundles of Showato and some good swords as well,in other words,intuition and guesswork!

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Why do you think so?

 

Hi, my observations which are probably moronic,

 

photo 1,2 and 3 .... blade looks oil quenched

photo 4, the activity seems superficial, like it wasnt forged

 

Photo 5 hamon looks like a modern repo type blade

 

photo 6......looks acid etched

 

Photo 7 .... Boshi hamon looks too round, like its machine made assembly line

photo 8.... the Hamon doesnt look right, in the photo its just puffy white steel, cant see any activity from forging

photo 9 and 10.... look oil quenched

 

photo 11 ... looks like nihonto, but i had a feeling that one was a trick one that looked right but was made with western steel. if i got to pick one to have, it would be photo 11.

 

 

Chris

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From the comments here it sounds as though people are still using the word Showato/showa-to/showato to mean different things?

 

Since I am one of the earlier answers I would like to ensure my answer meaning is understood. I said IMHO all are traditionally made nihonto (yes, made in the Showa Era so technically Showa To, but not "Showato/showa-to/showato") except possibly #5 and #8 which, being entirely nioi hamon with no nie/ko nie visible to me suggests what is called Showato/showa-to/showato (made in the Showa Era, but not traditional tetsu, forging method or tempering process).

I am assuming that Chris has taken them all from the SHOWA Era and so I applied my examination test to them in that understanding.

 

I will say that this exercise is a bit scary because I have seen Showato/showa-to/showato that had nie (but were not traditional tetsu) so a number of these could fall into that category...but, based on Chris' guideline of mono-steel, oil tempered showato, I am prepared to stand by my appraisal (but I am keeping my finger on the "shame/embarrassment" emoticon face just in case....soooo, we'll see!

 

 

Regards

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Very late to the game (work sucks, but happy to have a job). As no answers yet (officially), I will throw down:

 

 

#5. No hada, seems oil quenched/etched hamon

#9, for same.

#8. Less sure, but seems bar stock/oil quenched.

 

The other examples appear to have nie and noi.

 

With benefit of hindsight I think I see a trend forming. Would be nice to see results as a poll.

 

A fun game to be sure.

 

 

Regards

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This has been great fun. Thank you Chris!

I just decided to 'get serious' and make decisions I could live with. I went back, looked at the posted images, tried to make reasoned decisions, and made a list that would be reasonable. Having done that, I went back and looked at my earlier assessments. Holy, poop! I was really way off - - in one or the others of my assessments!

It is time, Chris! Tell us the answers - - and get ready for the raft o' crap that will come your way after you tell us the answers.

Peter

Oh, and P.S. thanks for a great post!

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