The Snowflake

JP no war coming. I believe Jacques is still upset from me calling him out on another post but, in this case he is very much true to say it is a different variation and as we are students here we must be exact in what we are saying, so Jacques, allow me to correct myself then. I did call Muromachi in this test and Mino. I also said Hizen but that is because I saw Yamashiro. Please bear with me... First a note on how I feel about Oshigata. Oshigata are a single interpretation of any view of the sword being studied at that very moment. Usually when Oshigata are started they are completed without stopping or taking your eyes off the sword because from one moment to the next you can see different things. Ask a student of Nihonto to do an Oshigata of a blade in the AM and again in the PM (depending on how much beer was consumed at lunch time) you will get 2 separate versions of the same blade. In this version I interpreted the top 3 peaks to be Sanbon Sugi variants, Muramasa or Sengo school, had a very specific interpretation of their own, but JP, the key is in the name and Jacques is correct to call me out on it. San - 3, Bon - Godly or spirit, Sugi - Evergreen tree so the truth is in the name itself and is very exacting. In her article on Muramasa from the blog https://studyingjapaneseswords.com/tag/sanbon-sugi/ the author explains the context of Sanbon Sugi and its relation to Muramasa very clearly. She also highlights that Muramasa studied under Heianjo Nagayoshi who is traditionally a Yamashiro smith and did most of his work in that style. https://yuhindo.com/heianjo-nagayoshi/ Markus Sesko in his book Nihon Koto Shi describes the work of Muarmasa and his connections to Yamashiro also “5.5. Seishū-mono (Swords of Ise Province) Muramasa,who lived in Kuwana (桑名) of Ise Province, is a well-known smith and one theory says that he was a student of Masamune, but today it is accepted that this is a groundless theory. His earliest production date is the Bunki Era (文亀, 1501-1504), followed by the Eishō (永正, 1504-1521). It is speculated that there were three generation of Muramasa, inferring from the different workmanships. Masashige (正重), Masazane (正真) and Fujimasa (藤正), who is believed to have been the students of Muramasa, were active in the same period. Muramasa and his school (Sengo, 千子) temper ō-notare mixed with gunome which resembles that of Heianjō Nagayoshi. It reminds us of the close connection between Muramasa and Nagayoshi. Also Muramasa demonstrates a workmanship that has a close resemblance to No-Sada (Izumi no Kami Kanesada, 和泉守兼定) of the Sue-Seki school. There is an extant work of No-Sada with the mei of ‘Ise Yamada ni oite kore o saku’ (於伊勢山田是作) and a tantō that Muramasa make in Seki with Seki Kanenaga (関兼永). Muramasa makes a unique nakago called tanago-bara and the Shitahara (下原) school of Musashi province also show this. A theory says that Muramasa passed it on to Shitahara smiths. Shitahara smiths presented their swords to the Kuwana Shrine so it is speculated that the both schools had a close relationship. Apart from the smiths of the Sengo school, a smith called Kanenaga lived around the Bunki and Tenbun Eras (天文, 1532-1555) in Ujii (雲林院) of Ise Province. He demonstrates a workmanship similar to that of the Sue-Tegai school. I have seen a tanto with hitatsura based on gunome by him. Swordsmith directories list a smith called Masamori but I have seen no extant work by him. “ Nihon Koto Shi by Markus Sesko, Pages 246 to 247 In the Nihonto Koza Volume 2 on page 249 the author gives a lumped description of the Murumasa style varying Katana, OWaki and Tanto “ Hamon ^3 It is basically nioi and there is a taste of clumped nie. There are notare, notare midare, o-midare, gonome togari, sanbon tsugi, hako midare nado. All of them are extremely exaggerated, characteristics are that the tani of the midare press close upon the ha saki, there are also some which appear to leave the blade, and the tani between midare and midare become notare. Also, as for the sanbon tsugi, it does not become that alone as in that of MINO KANEMOTO and it has the habit of being three at a time, with one midare between. [in other words, it is NOT TSURETE.] There are also some tempered with a koshiba, the piece shown in the frontispiece section of this book is the most appropriate example, and those in which the hamon on the omote and ura match are the most common.” Jacques, I think when looking at Muramasa and the Hamon it is important to note the Ise smiths took influence from all sides. That and the historical connotation that Muramasa was to be ostracized by the Tokugawa would mean having to change their working styles through the lifetime of their careers so as not to completely go out of business. I am not a big fan of Muramasa, I find his work confusing and appealing as such to those that favor his legend of despair and downfall, there is not much beauty in Sengo blades. Look at the Shitahara and I see more beauty even though they have a low reputation which is unfounded and should be researched more. There are the Nobukuni and other Soshu smiths like Hirotsugu or indeed Yosozaemon Sukesada that one should study from the Muromachi period to really see mastery. Togari is also something to be studied in more detail and it is not exclusive to Muramasa, this can be found in Hizen, Yoshioka Ichimonji and Bizen Osafune. Therefore, the kantei should be on all aspects of the sword, not just the Togari. But, thank you for giving me an opportunity to go back to my library and look at Hamon.

Agreed Sanbonsugi is definitely there and its a great mix between Muramasa's roots in Yamashiro and Mino, nice kantei exercise

It is important to remember that yasurime like atobori horimono or hi could be added at different intervals in the swords life. I think prominent yasurime in blades with such patina on nakago lean more towards shinshinto. The sword is definitely suriage due to the finishing of the jiri

I was referring to shodai Yasutsugu as he did utsushi to tribute Sadamune. But the patina on the nakago looks shinshinto.

I meant first gen yasutsugu who did faithful utsushi of Sadamune

Echizen Yasutsugu also did this sugata but more likely shinshinto is the correct answer

Could be anything from Muromachi Mino to Hizen Tadahiro (nidai) but Kanbun looks true. Without the sugata its open to many interpretations kaga maybe? Kanesaki?

Sentiment indeed. Paul, may I ask "If I am honest with myself I bought this sword firstly because I wanted to compare it to much earlier Yamashiro based work" The sword has papers to a smith who's school is specialized in varied works of construction. Did the sword have papers when you bought it? "It is also unmodified and healthy so it appears exactly as the maker intended. " As we know if the maker was indeed happy with this work then they would have signed it as was the practice in the Edo period, swords were mostly signed if they were made to the standards outlined and approved by the makers. This was not, were you present when the sword was made and the not signed, or is the statement in fact just an assumption to justify a bad purchase? Knowing that the sword is papered to shinshinto and not to any specific Yamashiro based Edo smith or school, can I know exactly what enlightenment you have gained by "studying this blade?" As someone I used to respect for their leadership of the Token Society of GB seeing this type of post and using it to say " Buy what moves you" however what is also on a discount is a bit of an oxymoron do you not think, you clearly state that the price was a consideration in making an uninformed and skeptical purchase but you reasoned that the purchase was "OK" because the price was low, how does that help education? Is it not the same as saying go to the cheaper college and pay for it rather than aim for a scholarship in a top tier University? If one wants to study swords in any capacity they can see great swords in Museums via their societies (if societies cared enough to organise the viewings, you will no doubt point to the fact the TGB does this) so why influence a purchase that will point to no real teaching material and is just nice to look at? I can look at a Monet and it will move me, and knowing it is signed by Monet will move me further, because it is the real deal. I can look at a print of Monet and it will still move me, but it is still just a print. You do not need to own a masters work to be moved. This leads to your post on addiction and if you are in fact an accumulator or a collector, it seems this post has answered that in full light, has it not? You accumulate, rather than nurture Do not get me wrong, I have done the same (not with mumei Edo) but with swords that just had no place in my eventual goal. http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/32510-am-i-an-addict-or-not/ It is unfortunate that "collectors" here would rather justify a bad purchase than simply state that they did so based on a weighted average of coin vs time and that is what you are showing here. The sword was available at a time that you had a few bucks to spare and instead of saving to get a Shinto Yamashiro piece from the school of Umetada Myoju you did this....you scratched an itch. The Token society is truly looking like a joke every week that goes by....This post is tantamount to Trump coming on here and telling everyone to use bleach to cure corona

Did you read everything I sent you many years ago?

Learning yes, the topic was purchasing for a collection. Look at everything, touch only the great ones

I prefer to not have my full name mentioned. My first name is Ray, last name Snowflake

And you keep hiding the posts here in the Izakaya but there are other social avenues to make sure you are all accountable and I will be watching

And you will make your first mistake working with sellers. Work with knowledgeable collectors who do not sell here please Brian. Pictures should be of a standard format and quality. Sugata should be highlighted first, this is the way all Nihonto collectors are taught to see a sword, sugata first. Then there should be an emphasis on the critical areas, then if there are any issues they should be shown in real light pictures without doctoring. If there are no papers or the sword is unverified it should first be mandatory to post it on the general section so an open discussion can take place before it is moved to sale (this should be there to protect the seller also, if there is an unverified sword, the seller could be holding a great piece and not even know it, they should be allowed to get information, if they are holding junk, why waste time listing it) Measurements are a must If there is a mei and papers then these should be translated by a good source of the western community (yes, pay for your translations, support those that share knowledge) and it should be mandatory as the papers, sayagaki and mei are integral elements of the value of this sword, not the paper, the information on the paper. Any past information pertaining to the sword should also be mentioned This is not rocket science. In fact the forum should also benefit directly from sales conducted here. I have no idea why there is not an ecommerce section where listings are done as any other dealer and sellers list properly and sales go through wallets in the forum with holding periods of 2 weeks, but that is up to Brian and that is a lot of work and seeing as how he gets zero help, that is a big ask

I would like to recommend that the NMB come up with a very standardized format for listing sales items so there is no bias and no selective discrepancy when posing items for sale? Is that out of this world irrational?

Simply be patient, the shipping should resume later in the year.